Leadership Detectives
Leadership Detectives
Feedback: Your Leadership Compass
Feedback is the compass that guides exceptional leadership, yet many leaders avoid this vital tool. In this revealing conversation, we uncover why feedback is critical for leadership growth and how it directly impacts employee retention and engagement.
When was the last time you asked your team for honest feedback about your leadership? If you're hesitating, you're not alone. We explore the psychological barriers that prevent leaders from seeking input and provide practical approaches to overcome feedback avoidance. From structured 360-degree assessments to informal coffee conversations, we share proven techniques for soliciting meaningful insights that drive improvement.
The most powerful moment comes when we share a startling story about a leader who received abysmal feedback scores and immediately dismissed them, convinced that everyone else had misunderstood the questions. This cautionary tale highlights how defensiveness becomes the ultimate roadblock to growth and improvement.
We distinguish between solicited and unsolicited feedback, offering specific strategies for receiving unexpected input gracefully. Learn why timing matters, how to avoid the defensive "yeah, but..." response, and why assuming positive intent transforms difficult feedback conversations into growth opportunities.
Creating a continuous feedback culture emerges as the ultimate leadership goal—where giving and receiving input becomes woven into daily interactions rather than relegated to annual reviews. This shift fundamentally changes organizational dynamics, creating environments where people feel heard, valued, and empowered to share their perspectives.
Ready to transform your leadership through the power of feedback? This episode provides the blueprint for making feedback your most valuable leadership development tool. Subscribe to the Leadership Detectives for more insights that will sharpen your leadership skills and transform your impact.
Welcome to the Leadership Detectives. With Albert Joseph and Neil Thubron, this is the go-to podcast for uncovering clues about great leadership. If you are a leader today, or an aspiring leader, this podcast is a must for you. Welcome to another episode of the Leadership Detectives, and today we are searching for clues of great leadership by looking for feedback. And why is searching for feedback so important to creating or helping you become the best leader you could be? So, albert, great to see you today. What feedback have you got for me today? So, albert, great to see you today. What feedback have you got for?
Speaker 2:me today feedback. I was going to say the feedback I was going to give you is about timing, but I was the one who was late for the call, so maybe you're going to give me some feedback about um, but my feedback is it doesn't matter anyway, because I enjoy the conversations, whether you're a couple minutes late or not oh my gosh, I'm liking that that's good now that's an interesting way to turn the feedback that that should have been some guidance for me actually came a different way.
Speaker 1:Thank you, that's okay. That's okay. So why? Why? Why feedback mate? Why is? Why? Is this an important topic for leaders?
Speaker 2:I think it's an opportunity to get some input into understanding how you can improve your performance. That would provide better leadership towards your team and provide better leadership that inputs into the business. So it's an it's an opportunity that if you don't, if you don't, activate, maybe there's no other way in which you're going to get that, that, that information yeah, yeah, true.
Speaker 1:So how would you know how you're doing? I mean, you'd have to be a flippant, arrogant leader to think that you know what, whether you're doing a good job or not uh, without actually finding out from your people and do you think that those people aren't out there? Yeah, oh, I know those people are out there, many people out there, who feel they don't need feedback because they know better.
Speaker 2:They either don't need feedback because they need better. And even if you did tell me, it doesn't make any difference to how I'm going to be going forward. So the reality is the reality is this might not be a one-size-fits-all for everyone, right? Because neil and I are two people who are hang on. We claim to be receptive to that feedback.
Speaker 1:Some people may not even engage in that process yeah, I mean, if I'm honest, you know, seeking feedback is something I've always tried to do over the years, just like, if you're running a business or you're a salesperson running or a sales director, whatever you're doing, you've got customers. Yeah, and you're always going to go and seek feedback from customers on how well you're doing. Yeah, and it's no different. And why would you do that? Why would you go and seek feedback from customers? Because you want to improve your product? Because you want to provide a better service? Yeah, because you want to know how you retain them? Yeah, it's not.
Speaker 2:It's no different being a leader leading people yeah, and so what just came to mind when you said that is, you might gain some feedback from a particular client that actually is really useful on how you're dealing with your other clients. Well, why is there any different with your team members?
Speaker 1:exactly so, and I think there's a you know I I would say I've always tried to seek feedback and I love feedback, um, especially the good feedback. No one ever loves getting negative feedback.
Speaker 1:But actually, no, that's not true, because I shouldn't have taken a sip of water, just as you, um, but we'll come to that in a minute about positive and negative feedback. Is there such a thing as negative feedback? But, in terms of what we just said there, why is feedback important? It's important to help you improve as a leader. It's important for your employees to know that they can give you feedback, because that helps them feel heard, and one of the studies I looked at as to why feedback was important was that the leaders that seek feedback retain employees at a much higher level than those that don't seek feedback. Yeah, um, so those are some of the benefits. I know what other ones you came up with no, I think.
Speaker 2:I think the way you've said it is absolutely right. Right, so it is. It is really about taking that and and um. I think we've said this before right, feedback is a gift, right? So if somebody's willing to offer you that gift, you can decide if you don't want to take that gift. You can even take it but not use it. You can put it in the drawer if you want to, but it seems pretty silly to have received that feedback and not used it to your own benefit and to other people's and the business, right? Yeah?
Speaker 1:yeah, and I think there's um. It sets an example as well. If the leader is seeking feedback and is okay with feedback, it sets a really good example to the rest of the organization and then your teams will start giving feedback with each other.
Speaker 2:Your colleagues know it's okay to give feedback, so I think it starts setting a culture of enabling that feedback loop yeah, I think I think I don't know what you're saying, neil, but, um, through your coaching or from any of the companies you're working with, but I'm certainly seeing it, where I am right now, that the flavor of a once a year annual appraisal is not the way to go anymore. Right, and I know in previous companies we worked at they changed that as well this continuous feedback they are trying to bring in as a culture and as a habit and and if that is the case, imagine what a lovely situation it could be that people could feel that honest and open to be able to, to engage in that without feeling any um risk at doing so, right?
Speaker 1:and we, yeah. And what kind of risk are you thinking about there? What kind of risk might might people feel?
Speaker 2:well, look, some people can ask for that feedback because they think it's the right thing to do, and then they might struggle not holding that against someone for having taken a view of something that that they might feel wounded by right. You've got to accept that some of this feedback might not sit well with you when it first hits you right and and then? Are you then going to hold the person accountable? Who said the words, by the way, who might feel the same as everybody else in the team, decided to be the one to speak up because they've had the courage to say it so.
Speaker 1:So the risk is of retribution yeah from uh, your boss, I guess leaders that are narcissists, probably the worst at that. I can think of some world leaders who you might not want to give feedback to, because they might, unless it was you're looking fabulous today, mr president. That might be the sort of feedback they'd like, but if it was anything that would be growth feedback that would help them grow or improve, they might not want to hear that. Yeah, no, exactly.
Speaker 2:Exactly Interesting, and maybe not just. Maybe not just retribution, neil. It might even just be unconscious bias, right? You might just not realize that the opportunities might come up, you may not give it to that person. Or yet there's just that danger, right, that people think, oh, do I really want to get myself into that place? My advice would be if it's genuine and it's, it's something you think that could improve. And, by the way, if you've been asked for that feedback, right? I mean, this is the difference, right? Is somebody asking you for it or you just going and putting it upon them right Now? If somebody's asked for it, I don't know why you shouldn't feel comfortable with providing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we're talking about solicited feedback where you ask for it and unsolicited where you haven't asked for it. Right, yeah, so let's start with the first one. So, when we think about that kind of solicited feedback, which is more structured feedback, yeah, what, what, what ways can leaders structure feedback? What?
Speaker 2:have you seen they could be doing it by a 360 kind of approach, right, which might be a survey type thing, yeah, which, by the way, could be anonymous, yeah, um, so there is that opportunity. It's anonymous, there could be a one-to-one discussion. I'd love to see you smile.
Speaker 1:I'm smiling and that people can listen to this can't see me smile. The reason I'm smiling is I love the unanimous 360 because I get as a coach, I do 360s with leaders and you know we do feedback on the and there's always comments. You ask for comments as well as scores in the feedback and I haven't met a leader yet that doesn't go through and go right. I know you said that. I know I know you said that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that that might. That's definitely them. Even though it's unanimous, they're trying to work out who it was yeah, yeah, and and what's the benefit of knowing?
Speaker 2:I mean, what's the benefit of knowing? Because if that is somebody's point of view, the only the only benefit of knowing is if you wanted to follow up right, but even then you could follow up. You and I have done feedback sessions with groups, right, yeah, and then you can do a follow-up in a group as well. So, you know, you can hold the group in a room and say, let's just go through all this feedback. Does somebody want to build on what I see as a one-line comment here? The person who builds on it doesn't necessarily be the person who offered it in the first place, right?
Speaker 1:No, exactly. Yeah, and actually it's really important if you you do ask, if you do a formal 360 and you do ask your team and your customers or your peers for feedback is that you go back and say thank you for taking the time to do it, because quite often they have to invest 20 minutes, half an hour of their time to do it. Yeah, and secondly, you go back later on and say what did you learn from that process and how? What are you doing differently as a result of that process? What are you doing more of? What are you doing less of?
Speaker 2:I think you absolutely have to right, because if you don't, you leave them with a belief that maybe it wasn't even heard. Secondly, it might have been heard, but it was not acknowledged, and how do you even know that that person's taken it on board? So it absolutely should be. Part of your process is to go back and, as you say, neil, thank them for the time and effort they put into giving you that, but tell them what you either have done or plan to do differently, and then to check in again later, some while later. Has it improved? Are we still seeing the same thing, right? Has it got better?
Speaker 1:So what other types of? So that's formal. What are the types of formal or solicited feedback? Have you seen?
Speaker 2:Listen, I've used it. You've used it as well, on a very informal kind of basis, to still get that feedback right. We could do that over a coffee, yeah, we could do that over a coffee. Yeah, we could do that over a beer, right, we could do that on the golf course, right, there's. No, probably don't do at the start of the round, do you, if it doesn't go to your four hours of company yeah, it's probably.
Speaker 1:You know. It depends that you thought four hours of downloading a feedback from an employee or from a member of staff or something that might be a bit much yeah, maybe we'll do the driving range and not the golf course. In fact, there's a good point there about don't ask for feedback at the end of the night after you've been out drinking and eating, because that's where you get the finger pointing in the chest and another thing, and another thing, and another thing. Is it more honest at that point?
Speaker 2:is it more I don't know.
Speaker 1:Certainly people's inhibitions are removed and yeah, but that's that's why it's always a good tip as a leader, make sure you're not the last one in the bar. I know you, I know that was never you, but I I always go to bed before people get to the point of starting to poke you in the chest and I always don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, and then they regret it.
Speaker 1:The next morning I'll tell you.
Speaker 2:Say that to albert but, but again, look, maybe you do need to make it informal because maybe and maybe you've got to adjust that, neil, depending on the people you're talking to, right? Maybe some of them would not open up if they were not in that environment, right? So, also, the other thing to think about is how would I say it? Don't do it on a stage, right? If you're going to ask for feedback from a, from a group of people, that's a risk as well, I think, because you're letting people have to perform in front of their colleagues. Is that a good thing? Are you going to get more honesty?
Speaker 1:I don't know what you, what you tend to get. You might get honesty from certain people, but you'll get a bit of herd mentality, yeah. So someone will say something oh yeah, I agree with that. And yeah, someone got yeah, and, and this as well. So you end up with a bit of a herd mentality. So you're probably not going to get the most useful feedback.
Speaker 1:What it might be a mob, a mob, yeah, um. But you know, one of the things I used to do and do I do it today? No, not really today, but I used to do this. Actually, I do it as a coach today, but as a leader, as a manager, whenever I was doing like quarterly discussions with my team, I would always end up by saying how could I be a better leader supporting you, how could I be a better manager for you? What do you need from me? And because I was very comfortable, whatever they said to me, because I'd asked, I was very comfortable that, um, I would take it. And, and the great thing about feedback is, you can choose to do something with it or you can choose not to do something with it. You don't have to do something with it. But that was, that was the way I used to do it.
Speaker 2:That's really interesting because I used to as well, right, which is it's interesting that you and I took the same approach, but I don't believe I was ever trained to do that. I don't think anyone ever advised me to do that. I think, well, you and I probably did that. I don't know, why do we do that?
Speaker 1:cared. Okay, I cared because I wanted to be the best manager or leader I could be for the team yeah, I mean, I would always ask that question as well.
Speaker 2:Right, what, what, what can I do, or what can I start doing or stop doing? Yeah, that would make me a good or better leader for you and that would make your job as um enjoyable and productive as it could be, and I think that's a good tip for leaders listening to this.
Speaker 1:It's as simple as asking those questions what could I stop or start doing to be a better leader for you, better manager for you to help you do your job better? Yeah, Just simple as that.
Speaker 2:Now it's your choice if you want to put some boundaries around it. Just that says I can't fix everything, you tell me. But I'd still like you to tell me, right? So I'm not saying to set yourself up to say, well, I'm not going to listen to what you now say next, but but it is worth just being clear that you can't fix everything, everyone tells you. But you want to know anyway, it's still worth knowing, right yeah, and it's, and it's interesting.
Speaker 1:You say you can't fix everyone, and it's a bit the same is true of you know the old saying you can make some of the people happy all of the time, but you can't make all of the people happy. Yeah, some of the time, whatever it is the phrase, I can't remember that. But um, you cannot make everybody happy all of the time. 100. And um, there's a great, there's a story I tell on stage. Actually it was einstein was in, uh, teaching in a university, and it was. It was something I picked up off the internet, so it's not my story.
Speaker 1:But um, he, uh, he was doing a class and he started doing the nine times table and he goes one times nine is nine, two times nine is 18, three times nine is 27, and so on and so on, and he got to 10 times nine and said 89. And the students in the room put their hand up and said that's wrong, mr Einstein, or Dr Einstein, it's 90. And he said it's interesting, isn't it? Nine times, I got it right, but you focused on the one time I got it wrong. Yeah, and it's the same with feedback is that you could get 10 bits of feedback and you could get nine bits of glowing feedback about things you're doing really well and and that you've done, uh, excellent on, and there's one bit of feedback that, and that's the bit that sticks with you, the negative feedback, the criticism, the, and I think I think there's also an element of human nature there, or maybe it's the kind of people you're dealing with right.
Speaker 2:Um, let's say, if you're dealing with engineers, they're looking for problems right, so they're happier to spot a problem. I think you and I are very comfortable with providing positive feedback a lot of the time. I know we're talking about you know leaders trying to find feedback that helps them improve, but, but you and I would make a point of thanking a member of staff, or thanking somebody who served us at our table or leaving a restaurant and saying thanks, I've had a great experience. We, we do that right, naturally, and normally it's not. It's not like a pretend thing, it's just. It's just our behavior and the way that we are. Lots of other people will only feed back on where there is a problem. So even in that feedback and by the way, what did I see written down? I did a little bit of research and somebody said you did some prep for this.
Speaker 2:You love this bit. You love this bit. They said what does it say? So it said if you get good, good feedback, that's no feedback. Yeah, yeah, right. But if you get bad feedback, that's good feedback, right, which actually makes sense. Right, because if you're looking for things to help you improve, you do actually want feedback. That's not. I don't need anyone. I'll have the right phrase to use on here. I don't need anyone blowing smoke up, right. I don't need that. It's lovely to get it. Like you said at the start, it's lovely to get it. That's great. What can I do with that, unless it's very specific about please keep doing this, exactly, yeah, right, yeah, because this works. Please keep doing this I agree with you.
Speaker 1:I think I can't remember what I was doing the other day. I was doing something and I was asking for feedback, and we've got lots of glowing feedback. I said that's fabulous, thank you for that, but what's something I could do better? Yeah and uh, because people are a little bit uncomfortable with giving you feedback unless you ask for it. Yeah, and if you say you know, please, I want to know. Uh, and there is, so there is.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about unsolicited feedback for a second, because I think this is important as well. So let's say, um, someone comes to you and said boss, I've got some feedback for you, is it? You know I've got some feedback for you? Or boss can got some feedback for you? Or boss, can I tell you what you did wrong in that situation or in that meeting? Or, boss, can I give you some feedback on that meeting? Yeah, that's unsolicited feedback because you haven't asked for it, and what's important about that moment is you've got to get yourself ready to receive that feedback. Now, if you're in the middle of a crisis or you're in the middle of something where you're stressed, or it might be, actually, I really want to hear that feedback, but not at this moment. Can you come back in 20 minutes, when I've finished this crisis? Then I can really focus on hearing what you've got to say.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's important as well so I think what we're saying is the timing of feedback is really important. So that's one thing, is it? You need to be ready to receive it, you need to be in the right frame of mind and you need to be looking to understand that because you can use it. I think that also says then there needs to be enough time to have the conversation as fully as it might need to be had. If you can't make it a two minute conversation, if it actually needs to be a six minute conversation and you don't complete, understanding completely what was being said, so and that's key what you just said about understanding so someone's giving you feedback and you're not sure, then it's OK.
Speaker 1:Understanding so someone's giving you feedback and you're not sure, then it's okay. Ask a couple of questions. Can you just give me an example? Or, um, or, or what did you mean by this? Just so I can really understand. Not because I'm criticizing, not because I'm being defensive. That's a red flag as well. By the way. When you start receiving feedback, you go, yeah, but or this situation that's um, then you're not listening. Yeah, let's justify.
Speaker 1:Let's justify, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, which is a natural reaction, right? It's natural to be defensive if you think you're being attacked which it can sometimes appear when someone's giving you feedback but actually, maybe there's something in there that you need to listen to and in your defensive mode, you can't listen yeah, and just remember, guys, what neil started this piece off on.
Speaker 2:This is unsolicited, so you're very likely to get defensive because you weren't asking for this and someone's come at you with some information that might not sit well with you, right? So so just, I know you and I've talked about this before we always come from a point of view of assuming positive intent. Yeah, right, you assume that someone's offering that to you in a positive manner for the right reasons. Now, if they're not, well, then you have to deal with that, right? Um, but what you also were just talking about there is, neil's, what we've talked about before, about effective listening. Right, listen to understand, not to justify, and not to respond.
Speaker 1:Right, listen to understand, right, really important and this is really important as well and albert and I have been on the receiving end of this is don't assume that the people who are giving the feedback are wrong or don't understand. And the reason this is relevant I'll tell you the story, because it's a very funny story is we worked for someone once, um, and it was probably 50 employees, I guess, maybe something like that. Anyway, it it asked for feedback from everybody. It was one of those employee surveys give lots of feedback on your leader and on a scale of naught to ten, it came out at like a one or two for them as a leader, it was very poor feedback, um. And and then do you want to tell the rest of the story?
Speaker 2:because well, so so we. So we, we gathered as managers and everybody was given the opportunity to work with their team on the feedback they'd received. So we'd sat down at the table with our boss and he'd got the feedback out, looked at it on the table, looked around the room, he said on this one, I got this score, and this one, I got this score. This one, I got this score. You all clearly didn't understand the scoring mechanism. Yeah, or, or they didn't, or you didn't understand the questions.
Speaker 1:You didn't understand the question and you didn't understand the scoring mechanism.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or, or they didn't, or you didn't understand the questions you didn't understand the question and you didn't understand the scoring mechanism on what was good and what was bad. Yeah, so I'm going to give you the chance to re-answer those questions. And it was like no, no, we fully understood the question, we fully understood the answer we gave and we had to take a break.
Speaker 1:My guess would be, to this day, they still don't believe, true, that feedback. And it's a shame, really, because, honestly, on many, many tasks, great leader, but one of those leaders that didn't believe in getting feedback, basically in in wanting to get feedback and grow, um, and I think that's let's, let's just dwell on that for a sec, because this is not something to do once a year, not something to do once a quarter. It's, it's, it's, it's a culture to create the best leaders create this culture in their teams, amongst their, their peers, with their customers, where giving and receiving feedback is just what you do every single day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you've got it's like you say, neil. You've got to make it into a culture so that it's not, oh, it's feedback time. No, it's not, you don't have feedback time. You just provide it as it happens and you just use it as an ongoing process all the time. Um, I mean, it would be lovely. I mean listen it, what? It's completely fine that your boss can give you feedback about your performance, right, it's completely?
Speaker 1:fine, yeah, well, that's just that's what my boss is supposed to do, isn't it completely acceptable?
Speaker 2:right, yeah, so why is it not completely acceptable to go the other way? Yeah, because why is it not?
Speaker 1:at the end of the day, as a boss, you're not better than your employees. You're not more important than your employees. You just got a different job to do correct, and so therefore, feedback for you as a leader is just as important as feedback for yeah employees, I was going to say if they just pay you more, but but even that's not true from you and I no, no, not, not when you're running sales teams.
Speaker 1:it's not exactly um, but yeah. So I think that the key message for for me with this is is is great leaders can't become great leaders unless they seek out feedback formally or informally, solicited or unsolicited, yeah and are prepared to listen and adapt, clarify whatever needs to be done to become better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. Feedback is a gift, it's a tool. It's a tool, it's something you can use. Um, I mean, just think about it guys. Without that, how else would you know what impact you're having on your team? How else would you know Personally, I mean? I mean, what are you going to do? You're just going to use your business metrics. Is that the only way you're going to measure?
Speaker 1:I mean, I know whether I'm doing a good job or not. I know whether I'm a good leader. I don't need feedback from my employees. It's arrogant narcissism. Basically, if you are and you're not gonna survive, You're not gonna be a great leader. You're not gonna survive long as a leader with a mindset.
Speaker 2:I mean, what you're doing these days is a great example, right? Because if I align what you do as a coach and then we take that to sports, how would a sports person ever get by, how would a sports person ever improve to be the best they can without their coach? And what is their coach giving them all the time, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the coach and that's interesting because feedback from someone outside of line of business is uh, and someone who's observing a completely different perspective on that leader is uh, you know, it's a job of a coach is to to help them. Help with feedback of things they can't see. Um, to bring it into the light, you know, bring it into visible, the stuff that they can't see. To bring it into the light, you know, bring it into visible, the stuff that they can't see. So, yeah, so feedback is is a very important part of that well, that's an interesting thought, then.
Speaker 2:Right, because we've spent an amount of time. What about 20 minutes or so here, talking about feedback from your team members to you? What about feedback from peers and, as you said, people outside of your sphere of control? What about feedback from them?
Speaker 1:that's really important and from your boss, it's really important. They're all all of that feedback. Is it going and going and sitting down with a colleague and just saying, look, you've, you've watched me in this role for three months, six months, what, what do you what? What do you see that I could do better at? You know what would be your thoughts on things you've seen. You know when I'm in management meetings or when I'm in, uh, you know when you see me in front of the group, yeah, um, what do you think I could do better?
Speaker 2:yeah, just be humble, go and ask, go and grow yeah, I, I would say go and have a go, guys. Right, uh, now, if, if you, if you start getting information that you're feeling dead uncomfortable with, by the way, like neil's offered on previous um podcasts right, if you get some stuff there and you're really not sure how you're going to deal with it and you want us involved in a quick conversation, it's cool, very, very comfortable to look at that, to look at the feedback and to help you kind of work your way through what someone is saying to you. You might be reading it differently from the way we might read it right, and let's just have that conversation. Very happy to do that. Have a go, guys. I think you've just got to get out there and request some of this information and see, I would be very surprised that the net result of requesting feedback is not you improving your performance and how you feel about yourself and about the way that you do your job and about the way that you do your job.
Speaker 1:Just have the courage to to do it, and with the with the intent of wanting to grow and improve. Yeah, um, anything else on feedback you think would be?
Speaker 2:useful. We talked about how we talked about why we talked about some of the what's.
Speaker 1:We talked about the what's yeah, I think we've covered um.
Speaker 2:We were going to look at, so I think we've hit some of the what's. We talked about the what's. Yeah, I think we've covered. Um, we were going to look at, so I think we've hit some of the what are the issues involved in doing this right? So we talked about the why people might avoid it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, why people might avoid it and it is scary, you know. Sometimes it's scary to go and ask for feedback because you might not want to hear what people have got to say, and that's that's just natural. Yeah, no one wants to be criticized, but if you ask for it in the right way, you know I'd really like to know what I could do better then that's not criticism. Yeah, and when someone's giving you that feedback as well, it's really important not to to be defensive justify, just listen and clarify yeah, yeah, hopefully we've covered some good ground there, neil.
Speaker 2:Hopefully we've given some good pointers and some thoughts and again, like we said before, guess what, neil and I don't know it all right. So if you guys got some stuff you want to offer, please do in the comments, right? Please offer some of that back to to you and the rest of the colleagues that are reading and listening to this stuff that it might be useful for them to to understand some other thoughts you might have and we'd love feedback on this episode as well, or any other episodes.
Speaker 1:Um, only positive feedback, of course.
Speaker 2:Um, but uh, yeah and and if it's not positive.
Speaker 1:Please be specific if you meant neil or me, right but no, seriously, we, we want to improve and grow all the time, so please do give us feedback if you got to the end of this podcast. Uh, we'd love to hear your feedback indeed. Um, but good to see you, mate, thank you for that see you, mate all of us. And how did I do today?
Speaker 2:uh, I think actually you're getting better at this. Right, I think you need to practice a little bit more, but I think you're getting better at this. There might be a career for the year in this, neil, now listen really good to chat to you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, mate. Thank you, speak to you soon bye.
Speaker 2:Thank you for listening to the leadership detectives with neil thubron and albert joseph. Please remember to subscribe. Give us your comments and your feedback. Please also visit leadershipdetectivescom for all the episodes and more resources and support.