Leadership Detectives
Leadership Detectives
Leadership from Within
"Leadership starts and ends with you." This powerful statement from executive coach Payal Nanjiani captures the essence of what separates truly exceptional leaders from those who merely hold a title. Drawing from her 17 years of coaching experience with executives worldwide, Payal reveals that leadership is fundamentally an inside game that requires deep self-awareness before external success can follow.
What's missing in traditional leadership development? Despite billions spent annually on corporate training programs, many leaders hit a ceiling in their growth. The problem isn't a lack of skill-based training but rather a failure to address the internal transformation needed for breakthrough leadership. Payal shares how she discovered this gap while working in HR and developed workshops focused on reflection and self-awareness that produced remarkable results.
The most successful leaders Payal has coached share two critical traits: an insatiable learning mindset and the ability to develop successors. They never rest on their laurels or feed their egos by becoming irreplaceable. Instead, they continuously evolve while lifting others up alongside them. This requires keeping ego in check and maintaining emotional balance even during challenging situations.
Payal offers practical wisdom for overcoming leadership barriers, including a science-based approach to breaking negative thought patterns in just 17 seconds. She emphasizes that productivity depends more on energy management than time management, and recommends starting each day with gratitude, reflection, and meditation rather than immediately checking emails or social media. Even the busiest executives she coaches dedicate 45 minutes each morning solely to reflection.
For aspiring leaders, Payal advises building relationships, understanding corporate politics, and becoming someone who attracts opportunities rather than constantly asking for them. The most profound insight? Success is 20% skills and 80% the person behind those skills. By developing your "inner leader," you create the foundation for authentic leadership that gives others wings to fly.
Struggling with your leadership journey? Remember that failure teaches far more than success ever could. Even Payal's first book faced 22 rejections before publication. Your leadership potential lies not in avoiding failure but in how you respond to it and continue growing through every challenge.
Welcome to the Leadership Detectives with Albert Joseph and Neil Thubron. This is the go-to podcast for uncovering clues about great leadership. If you are a leader today, or an aspiring leader, this podcast is a must for you. Welcome to another episode of the Leadership Detectives with your sleuths Neil Thubron and Albert Joseph. Albert, how are you today?
Speaker 2:I'm really good. I'm really good. How are you, buddy? Good weekend. I'm fantastic.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I'm enjoying life.
Speaker 2:Good stuff. Yeah, we're here on a Monday afternoon, busy weekend behind us, but today we've got a guest that's going to join us and is going to talk us through our specialist topic around leadership. So joining us here is Payal Nanjiani, recognized as one of the top executive coaches in the world, certainly focused around Canada, us, and Payal will tell us more about that. A leadership expert and the author of several books around the topics of coaching and leadership, payal, welcome to the interview. How are you?
Speaker 3:Good. Thank you so much, Albert. It's such an honour to be here, and thanks Neil.
Speaker 1:No, it's great to have you here, and where are you coming? Where are you dining in from?
Speaker 3:So basically right now I'm in India, originally from the United States, North Carolina, and these days here in India.
Speaker 1:Fantastic and thank you for joining us today. So let's just launch in with a question why leadership? Why the focus on leadership? Where did that come from?
Speaker 3:Okay, so that came from a deep-ended sense of purpose, okay, so, if I just take you back in time, I remember there was a time where I was working in the corporates and I used to feel that, you know, people are busy with their trainings, busy with developing their credentials, but they're never focusing on themselves. And, uh, you know, people have been always moving ahead, moving, trying to get promotions, trying to get ahead, but at a certain level, despite every training, they were getting stuck. And there's a quote on my website that says leadership starts and ends with you. Because that's where I believe it all started for me, that everyone has to focus on themselves first as leaders, before they become entrepreneurs, before they actually get into titles and positions.
Speaker 1:And that's what made me realize that everything, everything is about leadership and that's where it all started from then Interesting, and what was the moment that made you suddenly go from being in the corporate world to wanting to help leaders?
Speaker 3:I'll be very honest here, neil. I think it was a struggle of the people, because I was from the HR background, so I had completed my post graduation in human resources and I was, you know, busy with myself, growing, growing in my career, making sure that I reach ahead in time. But one thing that I saw around me was when people used to tell me that, you know, in a country like America, everybody is successful. And I used to look around and I used to feel not really. You know, I see people around me struggling. I see people around me struggling. I see people around me with the best of the resources but still not getting to where they want to get.
Speaker 3:And America spends billions of dollars on training every year and yet the ROI to the companies was so less. And I'm there thinking you know why? What's missing? Why is it going like this? And I remember one time going to my vice president and telling him why are we even doing these trainings? We need to do something better, because mid managers and up are pretty well trained. They need something better. And my vice president turned back and looked at me and says what's better?
Speaker 3:as such, and I said we need to do some transformation. He said that's not our job, that's the job of the transformation industry. I said there is no such industry. We have to bring the transformation inside the organization. And he said okay, if you have something in mind, why don't you conduct like a 45 minutes to an hour session with the mid managers on whatever you have in mind? So I did that and saw that there was a lot of reflection that the leaders did. There was a lot of self-awareness that got created.
Speaker 3:People started liking it and these slowly became a part of our training programs in the company, where I started doing once every quarter, then once every month and we started doing that Soon there were friends who started calling you know that why don't you come to our company and do this? And and honestly, I used to do it for free, with no charge, because that's, I mean, it's conflict of interest. I could just do that much. And people started seeing the results. They liked it. They said it's very different from what a training would be in leadership and they started liking it. And that's when I thought, you know, I could take that leap, that why don't I get into this completely and spread this awareness in the corporate and the business world. So that's what took the transition.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So that came from you. In an HR role where you were looking at managers and leaders that were in front of you, did you lead as well yourself? Was that part of your function?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, I my last job. I was a regional director, like a regional head, hr head. So, yeah, been been there, seen it. And that's when I looked around and I said this is a story everywhere, even if I'm working with global teams. Other countries have the same issues. Every corporate has the same issue, I found what leadership training did you ever get then?
Speaker 2:I guess this was part of the trigger for you as well, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, because all the leadership training that I was a part of, albert, was all about skills. How do you develop decision making? How do you develop conflict management? So we all know how to handle conflicts, but are we really handling it the way it should be? Our ego comes in between. We start feeling that no, I don't want to go and get this result, even though we have the best conflict management training. So the route is to be tackled, and that's then. That's the gap I started to fill.
Speaker 2:Can I just dive a bit more into that, into the community that you were looking at. That triggered you into this. It's a typical question I think you probably heard and you probably answered many times. How did you see the difference there between leadership and management and how did you the people you were working with recognize that difference?
Speaker 3:So those were the days, albert, where it was not everything was not out on Google. Yeah, so that's the time I come from, so that Google was not even that well known. It started off and you were able to research. But if you would just see that there was, you know, you could literally sense that people who are leaders, who are up there, they didn't really want a title or a position. They could lead from anywhere. I have seen janitors show leadership skills and I have seen CEOs absolutely with no leadership skills. So I think, all in all that entire difference, what I saw that people are thinking that leadership is a title, is a position when I get there, I will do great things versus let me do great things and I will automatically get there. It's a big difference.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So those were the pointers where I started to feel that people are just thinking about titles, positions, promotions, without even working on themselves. Yeah, and when they are there, they are struggling to be great leaders. They are still managing and you cannot manage people, you have to lead people so here's.
Speaker 1:Here's a question that I've pondered for many years and it'd be interesting to get your perspective. Is you know, the janitor is an example, or the who has lead, people want to follow them, or the ceo? People don't want to follow them is. Is leadership something you can learn, or is it something you're born with? Is it something that's natural?
Speaker 3:I think very few people have it natural. I've been coaching for the past 17 years across the globe, different industries. Most of us, we learn the leadership skills as we come into a different environment. We grow ourselves, we evolve, we learn. Come into a different environment we grow ourselves, we evolve, we learn. I think very few are the ones who automatically have those leadership skills and that too, with time and generation, they have to keep sharpening it.
Speaker 3:I might be born as a great leader and I'm in this age of ai. If I don't sharpen my skills, if I don't evolve as a leader, if I don't learn the new leadership qualities which are needed in the AI generation and the metaverse in which we are going, I'm going to be outdated. I might be a great leader, born as a great leader. So I think leadership, regardless of whether you are born with it or not, you, each of us has to learn it. Each of us has to evolve with times and make sure that we keep changing ourselves, not like, okay, you know what, I'm used to this type of a leadership and I can handle anyone. No, you can't handle gen z in the same way like you are handling, you know, the baby boomers or anybody, you have to keep evolving and with the all, the all the leaders you've worked with over the time you've been coaching and teaching and spending time with leaders.
Speaker 1:What are some of the core attributes that you see in the best leaders?
Speaker 3:I think the first and the foremost which I have been seeing in the ones who I coach and they are really, really successful, successful, neil is they have a mindset of learning. I've never seen them putting their hands up and saying I'm done, I've got the position, I've got the title, it's great, going great. You know, things are going fine. They are constantly learning. They are never satisfied with themselves. They feel there is, there is more to do. There is more to give, not more to achieve, just more to give, more to give it, give out there, more to mentor. What can people learn? So that's number one. And if I would say one more, I would say they know how to leave. I would say they know how to not leave an empty chair. They will fill up that chair.
Speaker 3:They are not the ones who will go out there and say, oh, I'm just feeling so proud of myself and honored that the company isn't growing without me. They are missing me, people are missing me. No, they will make sure they have filled that chair with the right person. They don't want to be missed. They don't want to feel honored that the company is not going great without them. That makes failure. They want to make sure they hear stuff like wow, the person that you have filled up the chair with is doing great, what a great job they have done. They like to hear those things they don't want to feed their ego yeah, I was just thinking of the word ego there.
Speaker 1:Actually, so great leaders have checked their ego or managed their ego. Ego is not a bad thing as long as you manage it and the mindset of learning and developing themselves and their teams. Okay, so those are two of the key things that you've seen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, out of the many.
Speaker 1:Can you think of any examples of great leaders that you've seen?
Speaker 3:Yes, they're all public figures so I cannot name them publicly, but yes, they are public figures with whom I work. Some of them are CEOs of huge companies and I have seen, like what you said, keeping the ego in CEOs of huge companies and I have seen, like what you said, keeping the ego in check. More than that, I have seen how they keep their emotional balance in check. You know, I can give you an example.
Speaker 3:Very thing that I remember is how two of these directors, the vice presidents of the company, two of the senior vice presidents they were walking and they heard a couple of gossips going around in the company about the union that the company was going to get into, and what they did was one of them, one of the senior vice presidents, just immediately barged in, started talking to these people and saying you know how dare you do this? And but the other one had kept an emotional check. He went into his cabin, thought through things, worked out the plan, spoke with the key people and then made the transition. So there is one who just got fired up and said oh, you know what? How dare you say all of this against us and everything. And there's another one who kept the emotions in check, so it always has you. The great leaders are the ones who are always in check of what they are doing, and that's why I started off with saying you have to work on yourself a whole lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, and I can see from your the book you've got behind me. It's about success within, and so when you talk about working on yourself first, what kind of things? And so so when you talk about working, on yourself first.
Speaker 3:What kind of things? So look we, we are in an age where things are moving very fast. Okay, if you're going to be filled with self-doubt, imposter syndrome, judgments validation is what you need how far are you going to go? You're constantly going to wait for your boss to come and give you a pat and say, oh, great work. But if your boss doesn't, because of any reason there I mean your entire day and your entire agenda is gone right. So you have to work on yourself. You have to develop your inner leader. That's what I call it. It's your inner leader skills that you have to develop.
Speaker 3:How confidence are you building? Do you know how to navigate corporate politics without being shy of it, right? Do you know how to attract sponsors in the company? You cannot go and find sponsors and tell them why don't you talk about me? You have to learn how to become that person who can attract these things in your career life, right? So, neil, I'll give you an example. There are two ways I always say that you can attract growth and success in the business and companies. One is by putting your hands out all the time. Give me more respect, give me that job, give me that promotion all the time you're asking. And the second is you become that person who attracts all these things. You work on yourself. You develop yourself better each and every day. That's what it takes to actually become successful as a leader. The leadership is not something outside. The results are outside, but leadership is an inside game. You have to learn how to master the game inside first to get the outside results.
Speaker 2:It's interesting when you answer the questions, payal, because I think you tend to turn it back to the positive about what must I go and get, what must I do Right? So let's just, let's just kind of reframe that a little bit. Some of that comes from spotting not so good behaviors in some people. Did you want to highlight any of those that you see very commonly in people wanting to be good leaders that need to address those things? Are there specific areas you'd want to call out?
Speaker 3:Yeah, imposter syndrome. I have seen the best of the CEOs faces, you know. We see them on the stage talking to thousands of people, but I see them behind the scenes, where they are like you know, I wonder what people are going to think of IELTS, because the company is not going that great and Wall Street is putting us on the spot. What do you think? You know people are going to talk about us, us. I don't think I'm ready to even go and speak up there now. These are, these are ceos of huge, huge, massive companies. Right, they shy away.
Speaker 3:We have seen so many people shy away from wanting to speak about their own work. Now, these are directors, mid-managers, who are putting in all the efforts, but when it comes, you know, to talk about your work, they don't want to. They, they just are not able to. Why? Because they feel our work will speak for ourself. You know people will recognize us. I don't want to be the one who feels like a show-off. So all of that is a narrative you're running in your mind and then you see somebody else who has, who has moved ahead in the career and you're like how did he or she get there? They don't even have half the skills of what I have. And how did they get there? Well, success and growth is 20% skills and 80% the person behind the skills, which is you. You're not using that 80%, you're using only 20%.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, a lot of the leaders I recognize all of that because a lot of the leaders I work with and some of them are quite senior are everyone has imposter syndrome of some kind. Everyone and they all deal with it in some way. So what kind of tips would you recommend to our audience for how to deal with imposter syndrome when it comes up?
Speaker 3:If they recognize right you said something, albert if they recognize it yes, if they recognize it, I think that's that's half the battle won if you recognize that you're going through. You know, my dad always tells me that half the battle is won when you know what the problem in you is yeah, right, so 100 neil what?
Speaker 3:Yeah, right. So 100%, neil, what you said is true. Imposter syndrome everybody faces it. It's a natural phenomenon, I mean, it's given to us by nature, right? So that it's a fear, because our brains are designed not for success, our brains are designed not for failure, our brains are designed for survival. So obviously, fear, imposter syndrome, lack of confidence are natural parts of our brains, right? But our brain also has another area, which is called amygdala, where most of the emotions stir up, from confidence to self doubt, to imposter syndrome, to happiness, everything.
Speaker 3:Now, as an individual, you have to know how to cut these negative narratives in 17 seconds. And science has proven it that if you're not able to cut them in 17 seconds, it goes into a snowball effect. Now, how do you cut this in 17 seconds? It's not going to happen automatically. You know when you wake up. So you can do two things. One is, as soon as you get these narratives which are detrimental to your success, I would say change your state of being. If you're sitting, just stand up, go for a walk, have a glass of water, look outside the window, do anything to break that pattern. And once you break that pattern, then you switch from the negative narrative to a positive narrative the what if? What if this fails, well, what if this goes well?
Speaker 3:Okay so yeah, it's a language like it's. It's like google. Your mind is like a google. Whatever you give, it is the answer, you know yeah why does this always happen to me? Well, because you're an idiot. That's the response you're going to get, right, rather than what do I learn from this? Where do I take this?
Speaker 1:the questions you ask yourself is so, so important yeah, most of us don't look at it yeah, and we talked about this before on the podcast.
Speaker 1:Actually, you know, you got the tony robbins expression of ask a better question, get a better answer and the triad, sorry, go on it's a fact that the questions you ask is a response you get yeah, and you know that triad that tony robbins talks about with you change your physiology, you change your state, which is what you just described. You know that science, the, the language you use, conditions, your mind, what you focus on, conditions, so yeah, no, okay, so that that would be, that's your. When you're coaching leaders, that's your advice to them on how to challenge that imposter syndrome.
Speaker 3:17 seconds is interesting actually, because you've got to recognize it quite quick, because 17 seconds will be up very quickly, yeah, but you know, if you don't do it in 17 seconds, then that pattern continues and you lead to procrastination, self-doubt, and science has spoken all of this today.
Speaker 2:I'm just thinking for our listeners here, just to understand that process a bit more Payal, right. So 17 seconds, but you've got to break it in that time and, as you said, change your state. Yeah, and what you said was you'll go from negative to positive. Something needs to happen, right? How? How would one move their mind to a newer place? Do you see what I'm going for? So you, so we break the state, but how is it they start thinking differently? What triggers that? What they need to do?
Speaker 3:well. I think we need to go a step back in this. Uh al. It is not easy to recognize this pattern in 17 seconds. That's why majority of the people get into this trap of negativity, procrastination, self-doubt. I can't do this, I don't want to do this, because we are not able to recognize. So the work starts not on the day of when you are feeling like this. The work starts every day before that.
Speaker 3:Your mornings are very, very critical and, as leaders, the amount of executives I work with I always tell them but they say I don't have the time.
Speaker 3:And I'm like you have to give this time because in the midst of the crisis, your brain is not going to just switch all of a sudden, because your brain is used to that pattern and that pattern continues. So you have to make sure, every single morning, how much time are you dedicating to yourself for self-awareness, meditation, reflections, writing down a few things for yourself, reflecting on the day behind and how did you respond? And what could be a better respond? Having one win for the day? I always tell them write your one win. If you're a person who has, who gets angry soon, your one win is how do I know to stay calm today, in every situation. You have to start training your brain to every single day, in the smallest situation, smallest, tiniest situation, to keep that calmness, to keep that self-awareness, so that when the big situation happens, your brain is already trained and tuned to it. So the work starts every day, much before by the time it's the big situation, it's too late I can tell you 100.
Speaker 3:This resonates with neil right I think it resonates with all of us because, because we believe that when the time comes, when the big situation comes, I will do it, but your brain is used to a certain pattern yeah, yeah, no, I and you know morning routines.
Speaker 1:I've been preaching morning routines, right, so it's great to hear someone else um saying how important they are in conditioning the brain and the mindset to um set you up for the rest of the day, um, so that's great. What? What are some of the other key tips, pile that you would say you know for the rest of the day? So that's great. What are some of the other key tips, payal, that you would say you know? For the people listening to this who are new leaders or they're aspiring leaders, what are some of the key things they should be focusing on to help them become better leaders?
Speaker 3:I would say see, I'm more of the internal, internal. So I would say number one is learn how to manage your energy. Most of us, we are managing our time. Okay, but nobody can manage time, honestly. Right, you have to learn how to manage your energy, because productivity is about energy, not time. So your energy, because productivity is about energy, not time. So if your energy is going in just fighting everyday things at work, you know, getting back to somebody talking behind someone, starting your day off with the phone, and starting your day off looking at what's happening in the world, all of that is draining your energy. So we all have a certain amount of energy in the day and if you're draining that out from the beginning, so get up in the morning taking the phone, looking at what's happening in the other parts of the world. What's your, what emails have come from work? That's it. You have already given the power to somebody else to begin your day, right?
Speaker 3:So, start have start saving your energy. Use your energy very wisely, very wisely, because that's something we all have got every day. You know, in the morning, when you wake up, god gives you a life and you have that energy in you. So learn how to manage that energy rather than draining it off so.
Speaker 3:So that's number one. Number two is have a routine. Many people hate routines. They find it boring, they feel that you know the same thing, clockwise again. But guess what? Some of the most successful people I work with. I have learned from them the routine and I have imbibed it in my own life and I have seen a huge difference since years. As boring as it sounds, it's one of the best ways, easiest ways to get to success. See, the ones at the top are not only focused on their skills. What we read on Google about them is oh, you know, this is what they have done. But behind the scenes they have done everything different, everything different less of skills and more of themselves.
Speaker 3:So discipline yourself, have that routine, manage your energy, save it, use it for the proper times you know. And one more practice I would always tell everybody to do is keep on connecting with people. It's not about the number of followers you have on linkedin. It's not about who's connected with you on linkedin. Be a people's person. A people leader is the one who goes a long way. Understand people. In a generation of ai, learn to build that connection of understanding people and learning about them, reading their minds and then building that connection.
Speaker 1:I mean, you talked about routine. Can you give me an example of a routine that really works well to build up that energy Come again. I lost you. You know you talked about routine. Yes, energy come again I. I lost you. You know you talked about routine, yes. So is there an example of a routine that really works to keep that?
Speaker 3:energy level up. Absolutely, absolutely, neil. A simple routine which I teach to my clients I'll give you a very simple routine is when you wake up in the morning, don't touch your phones, just sit in gratitude. Three things that you are grateful for professionally and personally. Don't forget the professional aspect. We how many times have we actually said oh, I'm so grateful for my team, I'm so grateful at least I have a boss, I'm so grateful that I have a company and a cell? We just take it for granted, right? So be grateful professionally and personally. Start your day with reflection, with meditation. Meditation can do so much wonders and I've seen so many ceos whom I work with when I talk to them, do meditation from anywhere.
Speaker 3:You don't have to have a particular you know pattern to follow or anything, just whoever. Whatever works for you, but spend that much of time for yourself. Don't start the day just hustling around the house and you know, doing the housework or doing the office work or something. Spend time for yourself. Go for a walk, watch the sunrise, right. So give that much of time.
Speaker 3:I know of a CEO who told me once that whenever he wakes up in the morning he spends 45 minutes only and only in reflection, nothing else. He said it has worked wonders in my, in my career. It has helped me develop a strong gut, intuitiveness inside of me, where I do not depend on others. I know what my intuition is saying and that's how he has grown. So all these things we learn, you know, while we are in the sports industry, or you know when we are in the other industries like, for example, aerospace. We are taught all that, but when it comes to the corporate and business world, we feel all this is secondary. Actually, this is the major reasons of being successful. Okay, and that's what I have seen interesting interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm just thinking about. I'm just thinking about some of our people and not everybody's back to the office, right? So what you've just described works really well if you work from home because you can instantly do that right. But there are people jumping up and in the shower and getting on the train and needing to get to work. Is it? Is it as powerful to have that break, to wake up to get to work and do it at work before you start? Is that still something you would recommend?
Speaker 3:I wouldn't recommend that for a reason because once you have started driving or you're on the way, people are going to get on your nerves and you have, you're not going to be able to control yourself or align yourself, so everything is going to get a mess up. By the time you reach work, you might be in a great mood and you hear your boss telling you that, oh my goodness, the project you gave was horrible. Then your entire state of mind is changed after that. So morning, if you, I would say, always wake up early for yourself okay and while sleeping.
Speaker 3:Give 15 minutes to yourself before sleeping. No phones, nothing around you, just 15 minutes for yourself before sleeping.
Speaker 1:That just completes the entire cycle then the answer, albert, is if you're traveling, commuting, get up early.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've always advocated that get up early, set the alarm early and that's an important thing, because if we're saying it's a first thing routine, then it's a first thing routine, right? Yeah, it's not an early thing routine, it's a first thing routine.
Speaker 1:So, payal, just tell us a little bit about some of the insights. You've written four books, I believe, haven't you, and you've got all the fourth books about to come out. So what are some of the insights that you've written about that would be really useful for some of the leaders listening to this podcast.
Speaker 3:Sure, so yes, yes, there have been four books.
Speaker 3:the latest one is make it to the top yeah yeah, and that talks about that how we as leaders all of us have powers internal powers and external powers. Right? Your external powers are your teams, your boss, your stakeholders, your position, your position, your title, your chair. All of that are the external powers, corporate politics. We don't use them right, we don't leverage them. We shy away from saying that I can use my chair and my designation to get certain work done. So you have to know how to use those external powers from which you're shying off. And then there are so many internal powers Like, for example, do you know how to use those external powers from which you're shying off? And then there are so many internal powers like, for example, do you know how to bet on yourself, right? Do you know how to build up that confidence? Do you know how to read people's mind, because great leaders are mind readers for their employees. So all of those powers are what helps you to make it to the top. So that's the latest book which I have written just got recently published in New York and, of course, it's available worldwide.
Speaker 3:And the previous books have been about how leadership you know you need to have think of it as a game. You don't have to think of it that it's a duty or a title or a responsibility. It's a game that you are playing every single day. So how well are you playing your game? How much are you building your circles? How much are you getting into influential circles? So we don't talk about these things. We feel these are manipulative, we feel these are not needed. But no, these are. You have to accept them. It's a very tough corporate and business world out there. You have to know how to navigate it successfully if you want to reach up there.
Speaker 1:And how do you know if you're winning at the game of leadership?
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a great question. So definitely, of course. We all leaders are known for our results, so your results and your outcomes are 100% going to speak about it, because every time your result and your outcome will improve. That's number one. Second, you will be a lot in control of yourself, a lot. You will see a lot of change in yourself. People will see the change in you. You will be able to better respond to situations and circumstances. You will not be dependent on respond to situations and circumstances. You will not be dependent on people to get you up there. You will see yourself moving forward and people talking about you and wanting you, and that's when you know the game is changing in your favor. You're not standing in line anymore, you're standing outside the line and moving ahead. You're so distinguished you're not in line. You're just not in line waiting for the promotion and moving ahead. You're so distinguished You're not in line. You're just not in line waiting for the promotion, for that salary increment.
Speaker 1:You're standing out every time. Okay, all right. So one of the ways you know you're winning the game is that people are recognizing you and seeing you as a leader and seeing what you're doing.
Speaker 3:Without putting your hands out, without you telling them, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, fantastic what about?
Speaker 2:what about those you're leading? What would you expect to see from them that recognizes you're improving in your leadership capability?
Speaker 3:the ones who you are leading ones you are leading.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, there will be change in them, right? Because a leader is known for it, for their people. So if your people are not growing, and only you are growing, that's not a very great sign of winning. So if you're operating at a level 80 or something and your people are operating at a level of 40 and 50, well, I think that gap is quite a lot. So you have to make sure, how are your people growing? And I'll tell you something, albert many leaders are are very insecure, very insecure that my people will rise above me. And why is that insecurity there? Because you are not doing anything to raise your level, to raise your game, game.
Speaker 2:So, consistently.
Speaker 3:You are afraid what if he or she overpowers me or if they get the promotion? Well, you cannot lead with insecurity. You have to be a very secured leader and the only way is you invest in yourself, invest in your development, you grow and make your teams also grow. Don't stand up there like how I was many years back when I was in the corporate world. I remember I had a promotion and I got into a leadership role and I'm up there telling all the people come on, come on. You need to come up, you need to come up. Well, nobody was coming up. Why? Because I'm just standing on the mountaintop shouting and screaming my lungs out that you also can do it. I'm showing you the way. Come up, this is how you come. They wanted me to come down, be with them and walk that path with them. That's what closes the gap. So when I learned that my team became successful, making me successful, Perfect.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's exactly where Neil and I come from. Right, and it's what we talk to teams about all the time. Right? Our job as leaders is to create the next leaders. That's our job. Right, Absolutely. So don't be threatened by any of your employees. Be supportive that they are going to come through the ranks, by the way right, but you're going to help them with that, right. So that's really important. When we talk about our outcomes and our results, I would say to our listeners think about whether that's one of the outcomes you're looking for. What effect are you having on your team? Right?
Speaker 3:so and sorry. No, carry on, and with what just you said. Albert is um. You need to give wings to your people to fly you know, even if tomorrow the company has a layoff or if things are not working, whatever it is as a leader, give wings to your people to fly wherever they want to.
Speaker 1:That's how they should remember you yeah, great, great um expression and probably a good place to to think about starting to wrap up the podcast actually. So give people people wings to fly. I love that. That would look great on a on a book. Actually, I can see it as a book title. Yeah, um. So I guess one final question for you would be what? What have we not asked you that would be really useful for our audience to to know or understand.
Speaker 3:What you have not asked me, okay Is um. Did I ever have any failures?
Speaker 1:Wow, okay, yeah. Have you had any failures, personally or with and with?
Speaker 3:your leaders? No, I think, um, the reason I brought up this question is because a lot of time, you know, when people look at my work and they feel that, ok, you know what, this person has reached to this level and has written books and all. And I always remember a time when my books had 22 rejections, like my first book had 22 rejections in the United States and it was a 23rd publisher that took up the book publishing and everything. So you know, and plus, I became one of the I think one of the only or the few women to be in this field, indian American women to be in this field. So I think everybody needs to understand that failure is what actually takes you up there in any way. Not that I've reached somewhere, but failure is something that really, really teaches you so much more than what success can teach you. I think success doesn't teach you much. Failure teaches you everything in your life.
Speaker 1:Yeah great, so true. What's the expression I heard? Yeah, great, so true. What's the expression I heard? When we win, we party. When we lose, we ponder, and we learn more from pondering than we do from partying. So true, the content that the, the content, the ideas, the thoughts you've just shared will be incredibly valuable for any of our leaders and aspiring leaders listening to this podcast. So thank you for for joining us today. Um and and albert, would you like to do the wrap up today?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, so again, payal. Thank you very much for spending the time with us To our audience when this goes out. Guys, you've got the opportunity for questions, comments. Please bring them back to us. You'll see Payal's contact details there. If you guys want to reach out, then you're very welcome to. But also give us your views on what we've just talked about with Payal here. Lots of insight there, lots of connections and things we've talked about before, but really appreciate the time you spent with this pile all the best guys, thanks very much for joining us.
Speaker 3:And leadership detectives yeah, thank you, pal, thank you, thank you, thank you so much. It's an honor to be here, thank you, thank you, cheers, bye.
Speaker 2:Thank you for listening to the leadership detectives with neil thubron and albert joseph. Please remember to subscribe. Give us your comments and your feedback. Please also visit leadershipdetectivescom for all the episodes and more resources and support.