Leadership Detectives
Leadership Detectives
Leadership Interview with The Force of Nature - Rania Odermatt, Managing Director Avaya Switzerland (# 1-32)
Episode 32 - An Interview with Ourania Odermatt
Neil and I were really privileged to have a discussion with Ourania Odermatt, MD of Avaya Switzerland & Austria who we both individually had the pleasure of working with at IBM Technology Support Services.
A fantastic story of how she built her career from Executive Assistant in European Headquarters to a senior Executive position. What are the secrets of her success and what is important to her as a leader? Listen in and find out.
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SPEAKER_03:Hey guys, welcome back to the Leadership Detective. Great to have you back with us again. Before we go on, I just want to say thank you on behalf of Neil and myself for all of your input, your feedback, your comments, your subscriptions, and your likes. It's been really useful for us to be able to get that feedback from you and for the suggestions on topics that we can cover in future episodes. Today we got a great episode for you. A lovely personality, somebody who I first met probably 15 years ago when I was in IBM, and then worked with her at the IBM European headquarters for technical support over in Helsinki. So it's great to be joined by Rania Oderman. Today, she's the managing director of Avaya in Switzerland and Austria. She talked to us today about the principles of her principles of operation, her personal behaviours, her respect for people, and running a team. So a fantastic story to listen to. Please join us. Enjoy and learn. Take care. Good afternoon, good afternoon, welcome everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Leadership Detectives. Great to see you here. Um so Neil, how are you doing? It's good to see you again. Busy week this week, right?
SPEAKER_04:Busy week this week. Yeah, we got some uh great week, some great guests, and again we're joined by a fab guest. So let's just introduce Rania straight away. So we're privileged and honored to be joined by uh Rania Odermat from Avia. She's managing director for Switzerland and Austria today for Avaya, and we've known Rania for we've just established probably 15 years. Uh when we probably longer actually, but at least 15 years. And it's great to have you here, Rania. Lovely to see you. How are you?
SPEAKER_05:I'm fine, happy to see to see you as well. Happy to be here with you. And I'm I'm I'm honored actually myself uh to be able to join your your your leadership detective sessions. I'm I'm looking forward for the uh discussion.
SPEAKER_04:No, it's great to it's great for you to join. I really appreciate it. And and you're in the beautiful mountains of Switzerland as well, so we're really jealous sitting in wet and cold uh the UK.
SPEAKER_05:Well, don't be that jealous because it's the first day I'm seeing the sun now for a couple of weeks already. So we realize that the sky is still blue, which is a good surprise, and the sun is still shining, so it was uh very grey. But um, yeah, the difference is that now everything is white and uh and sunny.
SPEAKER_03:Varania, I'd rather look at the snow than look at the tarmac outside my door, right? So that's fine. Good to see you here. Thank you for joining me.
SPEAKER_04:So look, let's um let's start with a question that kind of helps introduce you to the the audience. So if you were being invited to speak in a in an auditorium to a mixed group of people, how would you want to be introduced on stage? What would you want the audience to know about you personally, business, you know, who's who's Rani Aldermat?
SPEAKER_05:Um Rani Odermat is um uh is a crazy Greek person with a with the with the a really um impressive uh way uh starting going back years when I graduated in in Greece actually. Uh going through actually I did I I think that I have the best education because I'm a school teacher. I was a school teacher, I has been educated as a teacher, that's my university degree. And um I'm always saying that a teacher uh and what I'm doing right now as a country manager or a managed director or whatever is uh the job role or the job title doesn't really matter, is the same because you have still the same targets. You have a group group of people um that you need to bring together. You need to identify what is the um uh the strong points and the weak points and build a team and have targets, which is at the school is not necessarily financially targets, but it's a target uh still. And you can't just leave someone behind because then you haven't you haven't been successful in in your role. So um I'm a person that um um I I love working in a team environment. I'm a team player, very fair team player, but at the same time, um it's obvious to me that uh just a title is not necessarily uh meaning people will follow you. There are other um qualities that you need to bring along, and that is the uh the clear strategy, the clear message, the confidence, the the empathy. Uh and that is a very important point. So Rani Othermat is a person that um likes to uh take responsibility, to lead, to help develop the people. It's a very important task for me, extremely important task for me. Uh, because um you can't be a leader without having coaching your team. They need to have the same dream, they need to have the same direction. So I think that goes back to my previous story as a teacher. So I I want to give to the younger generation or to my team something from my experience and help them help them uh grow as well. And and and that's me. That that's crazy uh crazy group.
SPEAKER_03:No, but that's I think that's a really good picture. I think people can see what you're about and what's important, Rania. So that's fine. Um, I just want to go back to something you said there, actually. What you said very early on was about the whole team needs to come with you. Um, but and I think you qualified it later on by saying part of your role is developing people, right? So so that's an interesting challenge, right? How do you feel about the fact you might have a team? Let's make a number up, 20 people, and one of them's not performing good. How do you what how do you approach that?
SPEAKER_05:You need to go individually. I mean, it's not just a team together. I'm I'm reaching out to each individual. So I'm I'm really investing time with each one. And by the way, I have 40 people, but it doesn't matter. Uh, and of course, you have sub-teams, so you need to be able to invest the time with each one of them. And not only, you need to invest the time not only from the business point of view, as a human point of view. You need to understand what are the pain points, what are the challenges they are facing. Because whether we're gonna accept it or not, our personal life is impacting our business life. So if someone has issues at home, uh for sure he will try, uh he will try not to bring with, but the human nature is that that he it's impacting you, it's impacting how you feel in the morning. So it's very important for me to see what's going on and to have this human connection with my employees. So um, and that is that that requires time, so it's time consuming as energy. You need energy. I need to be honest with you. There are days that are really feeling like I don't have the energy anymore because I have invested the energy. But for me, I'm not thinking, I'm doing that because that is part of my nature. I need to do that. And at the end, you need to, as you mentioned, one is not performing, you need to understand why and how then we can act as a team and work as a team to compensate or to help that person, that individual to come along with us. So it's it's it's a very multiple ways, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Fantastic. So when you said you have to invest time in people, and you have to invest time in being a human being, a leader leading humans. How do you find that time to do that? Because most leaders struggle with finding the time just to run the business. So, how do you find time to manage to lead with the people as well?
SPEAKER_05:Um, that's a good question. Um, you need to create the time, you need to put some priorities and you need to manage your time accordingly. I'm not gonna lie to you, it's nothing is perfect like working nine to five, it's not does not exist, obviously. Uh, and I think that each one of us uh picking up that role, accepting to be in that function, realizes that it's not a nine to five job. So you need to have, and you are in multiple, uh multiple channels. You you need to to to take care of your business, of your clients, or your partners. Uh, but then you need to manage your time. And I'm very much focused on how to prioritarize and manage my calendar because the time I'm not gonna ignore is the time with my individuals, with my team. It's an it's it's in a weekly management system, needs to be there. Sometimes can take only 10 minutes, sometimes can take one hour. So I'm leaving, I'm I'm trying not to put that kind of discussions within a slot like you have like you have a business slot, right? I have that opportunity to discuss, it's 30 minutes, that's it, let's go to the next one. This one is open-end if needed, and I'm arranging my calendar like that. You need to you need to find the time.
SPEAKER_04:So you actually schedule time in for your people each week.
SPEAKER_05:Yes, it's it's from the beginning of the year, the whole year, each one has its slot, and I'm leaving some some uh um before that and after that. I'm always having some uh some time that I'm uh I'm I'm planning, so it's not like I'm limiting them uh to this 30 minutes on one hour, whatever. Yeah, I'm doing that.
SPEAKER_04:So that's really interesting. So you're making time and scheduling it, and I just want to go back to something you said early on when you were introducing you said you said Rani is a person who likes to take responsibility and likes to lead. Why?
SPEAKER_05:Uh I don't know. Um, it's it's I think it's cultural, it's it's character. Um, um there will people potentially say that I'm a control freak. Could be, could be, uh, but uh you need to find the positive aspect of being control freak because I'm really um empowering my team. So, yes, um, I was uh it's interesting because uh goes back to a session I had when I became people manager in IBM by time back then, and we spent a week, these good times that IBM was really investing time on uh on that kind of education, on soft skills and people management education. And it was a very interesting week. I get to know a lot of uh lovely people around the world, and then we have an we have um a special session about time management and delegation. And uh, of course, that is, you know, everyone says you need to uh prioritize, you need to delegate, delegate, delegate. And it was one vice president who said delegation is great, empowering the team is great, it's a must to have, but at the end of the day, you need to be on top of your business. And and I think that I have this sense that I need to see, I'm empowering my people, I'm I'm helping my team to stand up, I'm uh exposing my team at the same time supporting them to the upline management, but I have never up to now lost control of end-to-end what's going on. I need to know what's going on. I don't need to have all the details because I say I'm gonna have all the details, I'm gonna do it myself, which is not the idea, right? So, but I need to know what's going on and how I can help and support the team. So it's character, it's um how you think, how you think you you should run the business, and up to now it's working actually.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, do you know? I I think I think it's a great story, and I don't know everybody knows your story, Rania, right? Because as we were saying just before the call, you and I just realized we haven't worked together for 15 years, right? I didn't think it was that long, but it's 15 years.
SPEAKER_05:We're getting older, my friend.
SPEAKER_03:We are getting older, unfortunately. But but do you know that the the the great thing is you are managing director of Alpine in Avaya, right? When I met Rania, guys, she was the executive assistant to the general manager of Europe in our division, right? You've come a long way. I mean, not that that job wasn't tough because I know what the general managers were like. That was a tough job, right? But you've come a long way. Couple of things in my head on that, Rania. One, how did it happen? And two, two, was it planned? Was that a planned journey or was that an evolving journey? So, how did it happen and and and why?
SPEAKER_05:Um planned 100% was not actually. Um it's an interesting point because I joined IBM back then when we uh met each other from another, as I mentioned, I was a school teacher, right? So then um my my my journey is a little crazy because I was a school teacher in Greece, then school teacher in Switzerland. Um, no idea about IT and so on. Then I was I was I love to be challenged. I didn't uh I didn't think that it's I'm always thinking that you need to go ahead, to move, to develop, to do something different. You don't say, you don't need to stay focused on something because you learn something and then you need to stay there for the hundred years, right? Although I have to admit, I love my job. I love working with kids, I was a little creative, I was uh um giving school here in Switzerland to the Greek schools and so on. And then when when we have to move, I I said, okay, what I can do next, and then I changed to marketing in airlines, and then came IBM. So when I joined IBM, uh I have to I have to tell you a funny story. So the first things you do is just to get your laptop and you have one week to get to know about logins and so on and so forth. And it was a quite, a quite challenging week. So, no idea, right? You need you need to learn how to survive in a corporate environment. So I was always saying to myself, I was looking to the people sitting outside, having coffee, you know, being in IBM with 100 years and doing uh various jobs, and I was saying to myself, they're not more clever than you are. I mean, if you are, if you can do something, prove it, girl. I mean, it's it's I'm not doing that for someone else. I was I wasn't doing that for someone else, it was for me. I wanted to see where are my limits, right? Where I can go, what thing I can reach. And theoretically, that has been recognized because I was, I I agree with you, the career was was it was going very quickly. I mean, it was two years uh when uh the job that you just mentioned, and then very quickly I have been doing jobs in uh uh for Central East and Europe, Middle East, Africa as a delivery operation. And when I um have the interview to get the job, and the um my boss back then he was explaining to me, they thought actually, and that stay between us in that they actually they actually thought because I was working for that position previously, I know everything about that part of the job. So I realized that, and I said, I never said no, you know, I don't know that, and so on. But I said, of course I can do that, there is no problem. And everyone's talking to me, and I was everyone was assuming that I know exactly what they're talking about, and I had no idea, I had really no idea, but I said, okay, they they know how to do that, I'm gonna learn it as well. So a year after I was I was really reaching the point that I could really uh make stand-in for my manager, and two years after I took over his position, and uh a couple of years after Neil found me and gave me my next challenge, so it was going really really quickly, and then you reach a point and you say, Okay.
SPEAKER_04:So I so just be clear, right? I didn't find Rania. Rania when Rania wants something, she goes for it and gets it. So okay, thank you, Neil.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, that's it. I mean, yeah, I said I need to do something different because you need to reach a point, the point that you you reach that you have learned everything that is possible for you, then you need to move. So you you stay then you cannot stay at the same point.
SPEAKER_03:But you you've just you've just dispelled a myth that we have had on here for 31 episodes, right? Okay, and the myth was that in most of the experience that we've heard, and we've heard this directly from female leaders themselves, is that their experiences, a male leader looking for their next job would say, Yep, I can do that. Yeah, that's mine, that's not a problem. And the female leader will say, Maybe I'm not sure, maybe I could do 80% of it, and it just shows, right? I'm not, I've got to make sure I voice this correctly. You acted like a male's attributes and your career moved at a pace. There's a really important lesson here, guys. It actually says that all the things the female leaders said up until last now, Ronnie has just proven it true, that when you've taken a different approach, it's accelerated your career, right?
SPEAKER_05:Exactly like that. And and by the way, I'm always saying, and um, I don't want to miss uh misunderstood here, because I'm always saying I'm a kind of against this this uh women's quote that they say all the time, okay? Because for me it's um embarrassing, and I don't I don't want to be treated like uh I need to justify a percentage. Yeah, I need to have 20%, the so that we need to have that's not the correct way. I think whether male or female, um, they need to have um equal chance if they have the competences. That's for me, that's the point. Can you do that? Do you bring the competences, the energy? Do you want to grow? Do you want to go inside that? Do you want to go out of your comfort zone? Okay, that is the question we need to answer here. I mean, I think it's it's insulting for the women to say you need to take the job because you have to, as I said, justify a couple of percentages, or what I don't like as well is women taking over leadership roles, and then they try to prove outside that I'm taking the role, I have the role because I worked really and I haven't been made any any you know any favor, which is stupid because why? I haven't seen any any any male trying to justify that would do a job that's it.
SPEAKER_04:I think there's a there's a there's a key learning point in this though, which um I think we it's worth just drilling into, which is um how do we how do you say to um someone because you know you put your hand up and you put your hand up and said, I want to do this, I think I can do this, I'm happy to step outside my comfort zone because I know I haven't got all the skills, I'm prepared to do this. And and what we see from surveys and what we hear from other people is that ladies in business are less likely to put their hand up, they wait to be asked. So, what advice would you give to any aspiring female leader on how to promote themselves or push themselves or put step outside that comfort zone? What advice would you have?
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SPEAKER_05:If you know that you you you have the competences, and by the way, no one is was born inside a job. Everyone would would learn, and actually, you're taking over a position from someone that left or moved, and then you find out a status quo, how the guy, the person was there before, structure the business. Then you need to go inside, first of all, learn, and then don't afraid and go for that and say, Yeah, I think I can do that, why not? And don't afraid, but that needs to be the whole body language needs to say that. It's not like say, I think I can do that, but you need to feel it, it needs to be inside the flame needs to be inside you. I want to do that, and I'm okay with all the people that they're happy with what they're doing, and they want to do it the next 20 years and then retire, because if they are happy, it's okay.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, what was the flame that was driving you? Because that's really a really good description, is the flame. It's a very great, very Greek way of describing something else. This flame. So, what what was the flame that was driving you though?
SPEAKER_05:I wanted to learn more, I wanted to grow, I wanted to see what are my limits. I was I'm always looking to my limits and see you can do more, you can learn. I'm listening carefully, I'm learning from other people, and that is that is what I want. I want always to learn more. I don't want to stay here, and then you are you it's it's like the story with a bold frog, right? You know the story?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, it's the same, it's it's the same. I want to go out, I and I want to learn. And if I'm gonna fail, I'm gonna fail. And then you say, I fail, but I learned.
SPEAKER_03:Wow, yeah, that's brilliant. But it but it's interesting actually, because as you said, it's just keep pushing, keep learning, right? And this is what we've been saying to our audience as well. You need to find what is your driver, you need to find what is it that takes you to the next level because it's not a single story for everybody, right? Um, but no, fantastic, fantastic news. Um Neil, you uh your next question or me? No, you go next. Um so what we just talked about is your history, and we've talked about the things that you've done and and how you've got here. Um I'm assuming along the journey, Rania, there might have been one or two special moments, special things that happened that stick in your mind. Probably not the toothpick story that you and I talked about earlier. But tell us about your proudest moment as a leader. So once you became a leader and you were responsible for the destiny of your business and your people, tell us about one of your proudest moments in that.
SPEAKER_05:Um one very important moment was um, and I was there, I I'll give you three. Um, the one was when I was participating to uh one of the um um big events that we have been uh doing in I back in IBM, and uh one lady, a female, uh, approached me from Poland. I didn't know exactly, I mean I have seen the name and so on, but I didn't know the um uh the lady, and she told me that she had just been promoted to a management role, and that I was the one inspiring her all the time, along the time. And that was I didn't realize, I mean, I wasn't doing something different. I mean, I was leading those teams, I was leading CE and Middle East Africa for um something like uh um almost uh seven, eight years, many countries, many, many travels, uh a lot of uh um whole uh events and so on. And I didn't realize that. So she approached me and she said that to me. I was really very, very proud. That is the one thing. The other thing is that when um in, as you know, that we have not always all the times are really very very smoothly going. So we have a lot of challenges and a lot of issues that we need to face, and the worst of all was the layoffs that from time to time everyone changes, extends and so on. And there are a lot of uh discussions. I was I was really going individually, and I was trying to prepare all the teams. I had uh something like 20 country leading, right? It was not only one country, and people were coming to me and discussing and were saying to me, many times I have heard that I'm doing that for you and not for IBM because you are the one I trust. So that was that was a very important moment for me. Of course, I was trying to say, yeah, you know, but we are part of a team and so on. I couldn't say that, oh yeah, that's the I'm the best one, I'm the person, I'm not that kind of a person. But it was it was really for sure impacting me. And um just to go back to the female uh point that you have been uh talking about, the third moment, important moment from a person that was my uh my manager or managing the whole, because I was delivery leader, I was part of the technical organization, and it's very important to say that I was leading the technical organization, something like 1,000 uh uh hardware software engineers. And the most important time when my manager told me that you have been, and he was with IBM more than 35 years, you have been the best delivery leader I have ever met in my life. And he meant that because I was the only one delivery leader going and having um uh every country meetings, and all the technical the technical resources was sitting in the room and was listening to me seriously because I was the only one going there without a presentation.
SPEAKER_03:It's interesting, those three examples you've given, which are fantastic, by the way, Rani, really good stories for people to hear. Uh the feeling I get is you care about people, you care genuinely care about people. It's not about what's the process I've got to go through, it's not because HR said make sure you put time in the calendar to deal with people. You genuinely care about, and that has to be true. You came from being a teacher, right? But it just shows what a difference you can make. You don't have to be the best technical expert in the world, you don't have to be the top negotiator, you don't have to be the toughest guy in the room that bangs a desk, genuinely caring about people, and you're an outstanding leader, right? Fantastic.
SPEAKER_04:That's a great observation, Albert, actually. Which is and it's interesting that the parallels between this interview and one we did yesterday, actually, is that when people want to follow a leader, it's because the leader cares about people, and uh, and that's what we're hearing from you here is it's all about the people, which is brilliant, and that's great, great feedback for anyone listening to this is you know, get that balance right. So, I think what we'll ask one more question and then we'll go on to a few quick quick fire questions if that's okay. So, what what advice would you have for um, or what do you think would be the best advice you could give to a new leader that's coming into the workplace? Um probably some of the answer you probably already answered to this. And I guess there's a second question I'd like to ask as well, which is when you coming from being a teacher into business and leadership, what uh what lessons what did that bring for you? What skills did you learn there that are really really useful in the leadership space?
SPEAKER_05:Advice uh for a new leader is uh especially nowadays, um it's very important uh that to let the control uh nowadays, especially nowadays with the the COVID situation and the lockdown and the home office, um you can't you need to go out of the of the old-fashioned way. You need to so empower the people. A very important thing is trust and empathy. That's that's the most important. Trust and empathy for your team. We are, I'm I'm keep on saying the same thing. We are each of us, each one of us that having a managing or a whatever position, anyhow, managing people needs to know that it's very important. We are what we are because our team is cooperating, our team is contributing, and they are not following someone because. the title is accordingly if they're following someone if they have the confidence and the trust and the feeling that he's the guy the person is real okay that's that's very that's that's uh very important yeah um the teaching about the the things you learn from moving from being a teacher the the the things I learned uh people management I'm very sorry to say that's I'm keep sorry you have heard me many times today but it's it's an important thing and to my opinion um nowadays we don't invest enough time of people management in the organizations in the corporates we don't we just neglect in that time because we don't have the time because it needs time it's as I said it's time consuming and we don't do that we are giving we are we are concentrating on the administration things but we don't really invest the time on this one and that that's why we say all the time I mean you know that people leaving uh managers not uh not uh companies right so and that's just half the the half of the story but that belongs to the story so I learned about being the teacher that um people management like taking all the people with you and and investing the time to all the team it's a team we need to reach the target together as a team and each individual needs to work on this one. So I think that's the most important thing and be patient. I'm very sorry to say but you need to be patient.
SPEAKER_03:Okay you know I think I think one of the challenges here is that there's not enough recognition that being a manager and a leader is a professional role. Right? It's not a side role it's not I also lead as well as delivering the financials and and delivering the delivery and meeting customers sat and all and also I manage people management is a professional job and I think that's where we need to make sure there's enough awareness of that as we go through this. Fantastic Rania this is great interview really good stuff.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah great and so let's let's do a couple of quick fire ones then to round off so Albert do you want to shoot first?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah um I would ask one of my favorite questions which is I'm assuming along the way somebody said that you were their inspiration right who was your role model or who is your role model when it comes to leadership in in any walk of life it's not only one I mean it's not only one person.
SPEAKER_05:I was uh really very lucky in my life uh to met uh great people and I'm not gonna go into names because I don't want to get people embarrassed in that interview but um I was I was really very honored and lucky to to get to know a lot of great people um and um I'm I'm taking each for each one of uh my mentors or my coach or whatever I'm I'm taking a lot of pieces and I then I'm constructing what I am right now so I I took a lot of pieces but it was not specific one person only it's a combination of of of uh starting uh at the time when I was uh teaching all the way uh up to here it's a lot of people and I'm I'm thankful to that and because we can't take that as granted but of course you need to be open to accept and receive because if you're coming like I'm the only one and I'm the best then you're not coming forward. I mean it's obviously you need to learn we need to accept that we're not perfect thank god we're not perfect and then we every day we learn more absolutely I think so let's go on to the second question. So the second question would be is there a leadership book that you would recommend to leaders or a leadership book that you gift as a regularly to people when they move into leadership um I have I read a lot of things um you I maybe surprise you of this one it's it's not actually a leadership book uh it's the um Paolo Coelho uh about the um I try to remember the yeah exactly yeah thank you thank you the alchemist and um actually I met Paolo Coelho he was in Switzerland uh 15 20 years ago yeah and I was and it was interesting because he was in a um in a bookstore so he was signing his uh his books so I had one book that it was in Greek I have now I have all all I have in Greek in in English in German so I that was as I said 25 years ago so I took that with me and I went to the bookstore and I want him to sign my book which obviously didn't I didn't buy there right so and the um the owner uh didn't want me to to to let him to go to him right so he realized something is going on said what's wrong yeah the lady wants you to sign but it's not a book bought by our bookstore and said I and Paulo said I don't care come here so he took me that was that was an incredible story because he actually people waiting in a queue and then he took me in my book and we went back in the back and we sat down and he asked me where I'm coming from and what's that and Greek and so on. So I asked him a question tell me something because it was my feeling reading that book uh is that have you copied somehow the story from Odysseus and Ulysses from uh Homer right and he will start laughing I said okay I thought so and why that is the book because what it says it's actually that is the journey that counts and that is what I learned is that we need to take you need to take the journey and and learn every step in your life. So it's um a more philosophical I really have read a lot of this seven ways and so on and so forth and you have made a great list of books so I I can't say just one of that many of that but this one is uh a very important book I think everyone should read that one.
SPEAKER_04:So two two two points follow up on that one of them is yeah the alchemist is one everyone should read I try and read it every year because it's a very quick read but it does ground you uh really does the second thing is what you just heard is why Rania's cheap watches are cheap okay is she comes to the back of a queue with a book she didn't buy in the shop where they're signing and got to the front of a queue and had a personal interview.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah that's a great example of you know you know you you focus on Sonic you want Sonic you go and get it um I love that that's fantastic that's fantastic um so you've you've said lots of things on this interview which have been really good actually Rania but but if people are watching this and they want to remember Rania Rodermat what's a quote that you would want to leave here either that you've heard or just a quote that you want to make around leadership that you want people to remember you on this interview that's a that's a very that's a very good point.
SPEAKER_05:Always be positive um because life the only the only um thing that is for sure in life that is nothing stays as it is okay the universe the only the only the only standard in user universe is that everything will change so and um but but if you take that you need to think positive and adjust and adapt and be creative and don't afraid just go for that it's very important and be and and laugh put some smile in your life and that's very important great advice great fantastic great well I've got one final question I was going to ask and then we'll kind of wrap up I think Shree so given your background as a teacher with your team do you give them homework and do you give them detention of course because I think preparation is the half of the story and if they don't deliver then you give them detention they have to stay on in the evening no and I I remember where you're going to because we used to me and you we we know a lot of people that was doing that in the Sunday meetings but no and actually actually when that happens is a very goes back to my teacher thing is that I'm trying to compensate and help them move. So if I see that they stopped in a point I'm just saying okay let's sit together and do that together because uh uh we need to come forward I mean uh no no I'm not doing that I'm respecting my team and one of the advices I have given them now in the second uh lockdown is that um be disciplined and make breaks and go out for a walk and uh because we need to have some structure in in in the um in the day uh we can very easily go into walking 24-7 uh business never stops right males never stop coming so you need to have some discipline because that is impacting your personal and private life and one another advice I gave them and you love this one is that don't listen everything that your wife or your hash say to you nowadays just ignore it for a while go for a walk and come back because they don't really mean it oh that's good i'll tell I'll I'll talk to Anna and I'll remember I'll just say it was okay Rania said it's okay.
SPEAKER_03:I'm very happy to use that as well I'm really happy to use that brilliant Rania you're you're on here with us we we we had your name down for a while and I'm really glad to get you on this and then we interviewed somebody I think it was probably in December and we said to them you know any other topics let us know and she said I haven't got any other topics but I must advise if you get the chance get Rania on an interview. That's right that was Carol Chidley by the way Carol Chidley has said to us get Rani we said well we've got her name down already and she is definitely going to be with us she just doesn't know it yet Carol is an angel Carol is an angel it's a great person. Listen really good having you here absolute privilege and a pleasure for us actually so thank you very much for time really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_04:Neil I'll leave you to close thank you Rania thank you it's great to see you really really pleased you could join us um always good to see you and that's some outstanding advice there for our for our audience and our leaders um so thanks for that and to anyone listening uh or to all those listening not anyone listening uh please um leave comments below give us a like if you like uh what you've heard please subscribe as as well and uh look forward to seeing you in the next episode Rania take care to see thank you thank you guys bye to you all the best all the best exchange group is here to be your essential global markets infrastructure and data partner where open isn't just a platform but a philosophy giving you the freedom to make your mark in the world open makes more possible to make sure millions of people are getting paid on time and in compliance ADP is staying on top of each new piece of legislation.
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