Leadership Detectives
Leadership Detectives
LEADERS - A review of the top learning from 2020 (# 1-29)
We were privileged to have some fantastic guests join us on the Leadership Detectives in 2020. This episode is a brief review from some of those interviews and the golden nuggets they shared with us during the interview discussions.
Neil and I would like to wish you all the very best for the New Year. With the role(s) you will be performing and with the lives you will be leading. Good luck, be successful, be happy and watch out for more content coming your way from the Leadership Detectives.
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SPEAKER_02:Hey guys, welcome back to Leadership Detectives in our final recording of 2020. You'll be listening to this now in 2021, and hopefully reflecting back on the good, the bad, and the ugly that 2020 had in store for us all. We too took a look back specifically at the interviews that we had with some of the fantastic guests who we've been privileged to have join us in the last six and seven months. One of the main reasons to have guests is the additional and the different views that they bring, rather than just that of Neil and myself. So we've picked out a few here. A bit of a recap and some reminders of some great golden nuggets. Before I let you listen to those, on behalf of Neil and myself, I wish you a fantastic new year. All the very best in the role that you'll be performing and the life that you'll be leading. Good luck, be successful, be happy, and watch out for some more content coming your way from the Leadership Detective. Good morning, good morning. Welcome to Leadership Detectives. Welcome back here again, guys. We're sitting here now and the last days of December, so you've probably enjoyed some time during the festive season together, hopefully. But Neil and I wanted to come back to you before we close the year. So, Neil, good to see you. Welcome. How's things? You well? You good?
SPEAKER_03:I'm great, thanks. Yeah, I'm kind of uh feels a little weird, you know. The Christmas wasn't quite Christmas with all the different tears and lockdowns and not being able to see family and stuff, but you know, it's all it's all what great to have that kind of celebration and happiness, and we did lots of Zoom opening presents and all that kind of stuff. So it was it was a very different, well, a very 2020 Christmas because it the whole year's been different, so it's no surprise that Christmas was.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly, exactly. I was pretty impressed. Zoom stayed up, actually. That's quite good. It's got to be the busiest day of the year, and we were ready with other platforms as our backup because we had two family ones that we had to do as well.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, right, okay.
SPEAKER_02:So that was all right, it was good, it was good fun, right?
SPEAKER_03:But uh look, we had to make the best of the way we could connect with people, and it has been a completely you know, it's been said over and over again an unprecedented year, a bizarre year, an unusual year. Um, but actually, out of the embers of the fire, the Phoenix rises, yeah, and uh, you know, and the leadership detectives was formed because we wouldn't be doing this if we hadn't had all this stuff going on in 2020.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, no, you're absolutely right. Look, we have to accept this as a way of life, for better, for worse, but we'll make it for better, right? It's a way of life. So as we walk out of this year and walk into next year, it's something we're gonna carry on doing, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and you know, we we set this up to start adding value and trying to help leaders or or or um people who want to be leaders, uh, and we're trying to think about how we can add value online. And actually, that's one of the big learning lessons of this year is whatever you do in life, whatever your job is, is you've probably had to do something different to add value in a different way or engage with people in a different way. And you just got to keep learning and growing. That's something I've learned this year.
SPEAKER_02:I think the other thing that we've come across, and you and I are going to carry on with that on this session, was how well it worked having guests on here and being able to have an open conversation with them, right? For you and I to have made that happen, traveling around the country in and out of people's offices would have been very, very difficult to achieve. Here we made it happen pretty instantly, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I don't know whether we would have done it actually, because it would have been difficult to find the time and for them to find the time. And we have been very privileged to have some great guests on, and and like any review of the year, we thought in this episode what we needed to do was look back over moments that stood out for us. And there have been lots of those from my point of view. You know, I've been in business and in leadership 35, 36, 37 years, similar to you. Yeah, and I've had some aha moments in that taught to me by young and old. So it's been brilliant doing it, and I'm really looking forward to just chatting through some of those in this session. Yeah, great idea. So that's what we've got in store for you guys. Okay, go on. You you choose one first, then. What's the moment?
SPEAKER_02:Well, let's go with our very first guest who was really excited to be here with us. We were really excited to have her with us, right? So we had Jean McCaskill with us, um, and she talked to us about her views on leadership development and working with people, right? Um, so what sticks with me, as we were talking earlier, right? One of the comments she made was a fantastic comment about um giving your ego a day off. Now that's fantastic thought, actually. Fantastic thought. Um, what sticks with you from Jean?
SPEAKER_03:Well, I mean, let's just talk about that comment for a second, right? Because ego gets in the way of so many things, and and leaders not necessarily by nature, but you know, yet you have to have a lot of confidence, which can kind of come out in ego. But I think the key thing that that Jean was bringing across in that, and she said something else as well, was about being human, yeah. And giving your ego a day off, I think is really important. What that means to me is it's not about you, it's about others, it's about what your team and about putting your team first and engaging with your team, and maybe putting your team forward so that you're not taking the credit for what your team are doing. You know, and we come from the IT industry, which is very ego-dominated, especially sales in the IT industry, and just taking that moment to step back and think this isn't about me and how well I'm doing and how good I look, it's how good does the team look, and how what can I do to help and support the team now?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I I and I think there's a very direct direct connection there, connection there, Neil, as you said, between the ego story and the human story, right? There is a bit of a balance here, guys, by dropping that ego, maybe makes you a bit more human, right? And there's nothing the matter with that, right? We talked about the word vulnerability. In some places, people might see that as a weakness being vulnerable. It's not, it's not being open, it's thinking like your people think, and it's engaging with them on their level. I I think that's great. So, hey Gene, thank you very much for your contribution. We had a great call there, Neil.
SPEAKER_03:You got Yeah, no, I was just gonna say one other thing, actually, because we've seen a great example of someone who can't put their ego on hold for a day, and it's almost destroyed a whole country this year, which is in Donald Trump. So, if you want an example of someone who doesn't do it well, then there you go. So that um for me, what one of the things that really stood out, and it was a real aha moment uh for me, was when we were interviewing Zoe, our firefighting um engine manager, uh team leader, and she said two things that really stood out. The first one was sometimes I have to sit in the back of the engine, which what she was saying was sometimes, even though she is the team leader, sometimes she's in a team as a team member. Yeah, and I think both of us were hit by that as kind of wow, that's really hard to do. If you're a leader and then suddenly you've got to be a team member, that's quite a tough thing to do. But but you I thought that was great that that is putting your ego to one side, that is it's about the team, it's about doing the right things, and that really stood out to me as well. I don't know what your thoughts were on that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, no, you're absolutely right. Uh, you know, and I know Zoe well, obviously, right? But but so from her, that's the kind of person she is, so she fits very well into that, but she articulated it extremely well, right? It's about getting the job done, it's not about you, it's not about your style, it's not about the t it's about getting the job done. You can discuss any because she also talked to us about different leadership, whether you're in an incident or whether you're in the station, right? Now that's challenging, right? Because you're the same person, but you have to behave slightly differently. That's okay, that's fine. Um, but no, I think you're absolutely right, and it's the same thing as you've just said there. You've got to be accepting that if you're in a slightly different role, you still do the damn best you can in that role.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's not about your stripes or your pips or whatever, it's about what your role is and how you can contribute at that time. Um, I think the other thing she said which stood out as well, which was when they are at an incident, the leader will seek input from everybody in the team as to the way they should proceed, and then makes a decision, yeah. And I think that's a really important learning point for all leaders for a number of reasons. So, firstly, because you don't know everything, and getting input from lots of people just gives you more information and gives you a different perspective on things, and so that's really important. The second thing is it makes the team feel valued, yeah. But their input is important, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And that's interesting because the other thing that makes me think about on that is but the final decision is yours, and now you've got the courage and bravery because you'll take all that input, but now you need to decide what you're gonna do. And once you decide, you've got to go with it, right? But you've considered other people's input that you may not have even had in your head.
SPEAKER_03:Um and I think that came out in a number of interviews was you know, make the decision and then trust your team and you to execute execute on that decision.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, okay, what's another one?
SPEAKER_02:We had we had Vivian with this, right? We had Vivian joins. Um, so Vivian, if you don't remember, guys, is a current uh managing director in in the corporate world. And one of the things I remember, Vivian, we were talking to her about her team and how she put her team together and how people fit. And she was very proud about the way that they engage with their people. And I remember one of the questions we asked them was, Well, do you in do you recruit people with the right frame of mind and and approach, or do you build them when they come in?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and I think she was very confident, she very confidently answered, it's both, right? Yeah, you have to recruit somebody that is the right raw material, but you have to accept that it's your job to also shape them and take from them things that they're gonna bring in because they might help shape the culture of the company slightly different by what they bring in as well. So there's a thought there, guys, around recruitment, about selection and about who's in your team, right?
SPEAKER_03:I think um one of the things that stood out with me with that comment, and I know Vivian well and the way she builds and runs her team, is the standards and values when people join, and she's just going through the process of hiring people at the moment, and she's she's on the first day, these are the standards and values of our team. This is how we operate, this is how I operate, this is how I need you to fit into that. So it's being really clear up front. Well, it actually to start with, it's knowing what they are, and then it's being clear up front with someone. This is um this is this is this is our bar, yeah, and I need you to operate at least at that bar or above that bar.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So I think we've had some great guests, haven't we? We've had some great guests in here with we have, and and so one that's that really brought a couple of aha moments to me, and actually I've I've quoted the interview a number of times, is the one we did with Saskia and Rebecca, yeah, yeah. Which was you know, questioning millennials, you know, the kind of first or second job out of university, and what we learned from them. And you know, obviously Rebecca's my daughter, but I actually learned a lot from her in that interview. Um, and I guess there were two things stood out. Well, actually, there were more than two things, but let's just pick on a couple of those. The the first one that I thought really stood out to me was uh where they said, I need my to I need to make clear to my manager what I expect of him. And I thought, what a great comment, wouldn't it be great? And and even if you're a leader and you've got a director you report to, or you've got you know, next level up, whoever you are, in your have you ever sat down with your boss and said to your boss, boss, this is what I expect of you as my boss, this is what I need of you, this is what I expect of you. And and actually, I thought, wow, I would love someone to have done that to me when I was leading people. I would love someone to have sat down and said, you know, so so long as it was reasonable, not boss, I need a pay rise every month, and but you know, this is what I need from you. And I thought that was a great comment because then there's no surprises and there's no um uh missing expectations.
SPEAKER_02:It's an interesting thought, actually, and and people here need to think about that, guys. Well, where do you bring that conversation up? Right. So you're sitting with your boss talking about your objectives and what's expected of you for the year and how you're gonna get rewarded. Why doesn't that conversation go both ways? So there's a great opportunity to do that. There's a reasonable chance your boss won't ask you, right? So don't be afraid to raise that conversation. It's not it's not the wrong thing to do.
SPEAKER_03:And it was a good conversation. Sorry, go on.
SPEAKER_02:So I said it was a good conversation with with the two ladies, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I think so. The the the other thing that that kind of leads to, and this came out in a lot of interviews, so not just in this one. Um, and you just mentioned it, right? When you're setting objectives for the year, one of the things that came out, whether it was people from the police, people from business, what is you've got to be really your team have to know what good looks like, they have to know what their role is, how they fit into the big picture. So that's a really important point. But actually, just on the if you are a leader and you're sitting down with your team setting objectives, just say to them, what do you need from me? What do you need from me as a boss? What do you need from me that's gonna make me do a better job for you next year?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So I think so, so we'll come back. I think we'll come back to Rebecca and Saskia as we go through this conversation, but that was one thing that stuck out from that one to me.
SPEAKER_02:So so actually that leads to another comment that we had from a different guest that I think is very closely aligned. We had Ian Chapel on, who was our retired police officer, yeah. And he was telling us about how the old boss had gone out and the new boss had come in. Yeah, and the old boss was very autocratic and and and setting the direction and the words, and everybody go with it. But but the new boss, I believe, one of his first comments was what was the what did he say? Um, tell me what it takes for you to be the best person that you can be, right? He was asking what they needed and what he could do to make them perform better, yeah. Exactly where you've just come from, right? Yeah, that's a great thought because we were talking with corporate people and so on, but you bring this into the the police force, it's no different, it's no different, the leadership style.
SPEAKER_03:I think it was it's so I think it was something like what is stopping you being as good as you can possibly be. Correct, and and you know, doesn't that just if you're asked that question? Yeah, firstly, you know, from a psychology point of view, it says, Okay, there are some things stopping me. And it says, I'm not my best yet. Now, both of those are really good thought processes because it says I've got another level I can go to, yeah, there are some things stopping me, and this guy wants to help me. Yeah. So I just thought, what a and and for Ian, it was revolutionary because previous bosses have come in and gone straight into beating people around the head about areas they're failing, yeah, rather than working out how they can get better. Yeah. Um, so I yeah, that was a really uh a really good.
SPEAKER_02:I think I think another good point that Ian made, and I'm sure you've got a couple on Ian, but one other point Ian made was how much of your leadership is about what you do, and you're setting an example of what's acceptable, right? So you can say all the words, you can give all the instruction, but they're looking at how you behave.
SPEAKER_03:And your behavior is setting what's acceptable and what's not, and that came up a number of times throughout conversations we had with people, and you and I were talking about, which was walking the talk. Yeah, which leads on to one of the key points I know you wanted to bring up, which is around culture. And and what was fascinating in that conversation we had with our millennials was what would make them stay at a company or leave a company was the culture of the company.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And I thought, wow, that was a really interesting one. Because if you ask a lot of companies, I'm not sure they'd know what their culture is.
SPEAKER_02:And I wouldn't have focused on Love Island or avocado on toast, it wouldn't have been Tommy.
SPEAKER_03:No. So so just just for those who haven't watched that episode, we asked what's the one thing that we could do to make a great uh your your leader could do to make it a great place to work, and and the answer was avocado and toast in the restaurant and Love Island on all the televisions in the office. Um, but no, so cultures and so so what what did what have you taken out of the conversations where you think this is how you create a great culture?
SPEAKER_02:Well, culture to me is about it's about um repeated behavior and helping people understand what's acceptable, not acceptable, and the way you expect people to be within your organization. Now, by the way, guys, culture is it's a fit, it's a chemistry, it's somebody might be right for that culture. If you're not, doesn't make you a bad person. You might just be in a company where the culture doesn't suit you. Some people like fast-paced, deliver results, others like it a bit more relaxed. Culture might be as simple as dress standard, right? And if it doesn't fit you, don't force it. Maybe you should be somewhere else, or maybe you make sure you're recruiting and working with the right people.
SPEAKER_03:That's a really interesting, uh, really interesting point, actually, because culture in the arts and therefore the standards and values might be different to culture in a financial firm, in a stockbroking firm.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, so uh culture who sets culture though? What have we learned about who sets culture and how?
SPEAKER_02:Well, it was interesting because you and I also had a separate engagement off the screen here, right? Talking with one of your customers. Um and and certainly what what we found was the culture starts at the top. It has to start at the top, it has to be with the owner of the company or the managing directors or the CEOs, it has to start there because it then permeates through. Yeah, but the leaders that are then passing that down or working in that culture, then put their own shape on it, and they're either endorsing the culture that's coming from above or they're challenging it. I mean, how many of us have worked for bosses that have bleated about the way their boss is treating them? That's crazy. That's crazy. You should not be doing that, right? If it doesn't fit for you, you should get out the way, right? Um, so I think it starts at the top, and it's the leader's responsibilities to drive that through the organization. Um, if it's good for the company.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I think there are there are some basics I think we've learned that make a better culture than a poor culture. So one of them is about communication and uh enabling communication two ways. So making sure you're communicating regularly, making sure you're communicating openly, honestly, with integrity, yeah, making sure that you're listening and there is an environment where employees and anyone in the organization feels comfortable to feed up into the decision-making process or the thought process if they see something that could be done better. Um I think being clear on where you're going, um that those kind of things seem to keep coming through in organizations where there is a good culture.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's like we're saying about feeding, right? So feedback in some cultures, open feedback isn't acceptable, right? In others, and Saskia and um and Becca talked about this and said how great it was that the boss would come and sit on your desk and be have an open conversation with you and be keen to listen to what you've got to contribute to that. In some cultures, that might not be acceptable, right? It's just not the way it's done. That's okay if that's the way you want to run your culture, but just make sure you are in the right place and treating your employees and employees decide where you want to work, don't work for a company if the culture doesn't fit for you because it'll frustrate the hell out of you and it won't you won't be the most successful there.
SPEAKER_03:That's okay. There's an interesting one, actually, and this is probably an episode we should do at some point is uh how do you find the right culture for you? Uh how do you find the right people for your culture? Um, so that's probably something we should dwell on. Um, actually, it does kind of part of that though, leads we had a conversation about we've talked about racism and bullying as well during this six months. Yeah, we did. Um and the you know, the racism conversation, which we didn't have a guest on. Well, you were the guest on that, I guess, really. But we um I mean I I learned a lot from the research we did into that actually, yeah, as well as the conversations we had, and you know, your openness in the conversations, um, and and I think it shocked quite a few people that that kind of behaviour went on in large corporate world, yeah. And it also I think it's well, it surprised me some of the statistics and um around it as well. So I think that was quite a bit of an eye-opener for me, and and then the bullying one about the culture and this um, you know, obviously that's a poor culture, it's a bullying culture. So I don't know what what stood out for you from those two.
SPEAKER_02:Just come back to that research, Pete. You're absolutely right, right? Because the research, and you did a lot of that research, right, actually showed that where there was a belief and the spin that we were hearing was about certain certain demographics or certain uh um ethnic colours, ethnic minorities and ethnicities were were being prejudiced against. We actually found it went the other way. We actually found there were more people of that ethnicity in in a certain Korea or in a certain um environment than we believed, right? Um, and for good reason, by the way. But but what what's interesting is it gets the wrong spin on it, and and good point learnt from me there. Go look at the facts, guys. We're all gonna have opinions, we're all gonna get spin, we're all gonna get um views in the marketplace. So when you talk about the bullying one, it was exactly the same, right? We all heard what the papers and the news wanted to tell us about pretty patel. We need to go a little bit deeper to find out what actually happened, and we'll never know the full facts of what actually happened, but when we went a little bit deeper, we realized it wasn't quite the way that it might have been getting told, right?
SPEAKER_03:It did bring some questions in about who was bullying who, actually, in that uh environment. So I think that's important, and but but it's it's good to understand both of those elements.
SPEAKER_02:So that reminds me of uh a situation that I heard about from a boss that I used to work with, and he always used to say to me, when you get in that situation and you're unclear about where it's going, and somebody says to you A, B, or C, the next response to that is show me, give me the evidence, because if you're about to make a decision based on hearsay or based on opinion, that could be very dangerous. So, as a leader, your decision making is really important as a leader, but make sure you're using the right method and the right basis for your decision making. So, fact clearly is the right basis. Get to that fact as much as you can and be careful of the opinion.
SPEAKER_03:So let's um talk about our um guest we had a couple of months, a couple of weeks ago, which was Carmina Lee's. Yes. And we there were a couple of really interesting. I mean, there was lots of good stuff that came out of that, and you know, we won't can't delve into all of it, but the two things, well, well, let's I'll talk about one thing that stood out for me, and then I'll let you go to another one. So the one thing that stood out for me was where Carmina gave an example of her being asked to attend a conference call at like four o'clock, five o'clock in the afternoon or something like that. And and she had young kids and she said, Look, I can't attend then I'll but I can attend seven or eight o'clock later on season when the kids are asleep. And she had the strength to stand up, even though she was told she had to attend, she said, That doesn't fit with my home life and my family. Uh, as a really, really important point. Firstly, to be brave enough to say that, to get your priorities right, and to not sacrifice, you know, what your standards and values at home because you're being pushed into something in that corporate environment at work. So that that and and actually that got quite a lot of comments on uh when we put the video out as well about that particular conversation. So that stood out to me.
SPEAKER_02:The other interesting thing about that, Neil, is she said that there were a number of other people who then pinged her and said, Oh wow, I couldn't make that time either. Now, if those people were subordinates to her, she's just done a fantastic thing for her team.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, true, true.
SPEAKER_02:If they weren't and they were peers, shame on them for not standing up, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because she was willing to. So again, comes back to the courage and the bravery, right?
SPEAKER_03:Um, so what was the other thing that stood out for you on that interview? Because I know there was one other thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, she was a little bit embarrassed about it, actually, because unfortunately, it's proven right what her boss at the time used to keep telling her, right? And the point she made was about your career is a marathon, not a sprint. Yeah, and that's a really important thing to do, guys. Think about it. Don't get impatient about making your career get to the next stage. Because I also remember from my own career not becoming a manager at the time I wanted to, and I was told I had to go do some development first and then come back. Yeah, did I feel good the day I became a manager? Yeah, because I was now armed even more than I was before. So Carmina's comment around it's it's a marathon, not a sprint, is absolutely worth taking on board as a leader. It's what you learn, it's what you learn on it's what you learn on the journey. It's not just about I have to make these milestones on these dates.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I think the the important thing about the marathon analogy to me, you know, having done lots of marathons, is you're still clear on the goal, you're still clear on where you want to be, you're still clear on what sort of time you want to do it in.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, but you have to break each mile down into a number of minutes you want to achieve or whatever. And actually, if you're if you're not going to achieve that that time, that goal you're shooting for, it's okay, because it's actually finishing that's important, it's actually getting to the end, especially if it's your first marathon. That's the key goal, uh, not the time.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I think the other thing overall, when we look at this whole thing, Neil, is that we we found a number of aspects that came out, whichever leader we spoke to, whichever field they came from.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:There were some very key messages there about you've got to know the mission, you've got to share the mission and the goal with your team, you've got to communicate well with your team, you've got to have a feedback mechanism, you've got to have a governance mechanism and a management system. You know, there were some things that were repeated time and time again without prompt from you or me, right?
SPEAKER_03:Just best practice. And and the other ones that that stood out where that I guess I hadn't really thought about it, but it it's in really important around retaining the best employees as well, is make sure they feel valued. And the way you make sure they feel valued is they their their tasks, what they're doing each day feels important, their opinions are sought, and you are. Growing them. So that means you're pushing them outside of their comfort zone with projects that they might be outside of their normal business line, or or and you're investing in their skill set by training or uh whatever other development skill programs you can put together.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, good point because Ian Chappell mentioned it, didn't he? The police officer he said his boss actually gave him time off to go and do some more studying. I think was it his MBA? I think he went to do. Um, but but again, you've got to invest in your people and give them the chance to be able to do that. Neil, you were good at that, right? Even as a sales leader, you could say no, it's about going closing the deals. But you allowed people to go and do self-development stuff that would and and guys, a great analogy here is about sharpening the axe, right? You've got this picture of this guy trying to chop down this tree, bashing away at it, getting nowhere. Stop. Go sharpen the axe and come back and now have another go at that, and you will find the effectiveness you can create. Think about that analogy when you're working with your team.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and and as you go into the new year and people sit down and you set objectives and you're setting that clarity around the mission and where people are going, is make sure you're you're building in a plan that's going to help your people grow so that when they exit 2021, they are bigger, more knowledgeable, more confident, more experienced people than they were when they went into 2021.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we've had a we've had an interesting six months or so, right? Um, we we started out on this endeavor with with Neil's thinking of let's just go and do something, and it's just grown from there, guys. We did 28 episodes. This is episode 29 as we close the year. Yeah, episode 29, right? So hopefully we've added some value for you guys. Um, but thank you for your feedback and your comments because some of the stuff that's came back created the next episode for us, right? So Carol's saying, let's go and talk about bullying as an example, right? If you've got more topics for us, please tell us, right? 2021 starts in three days' time, two days time, right? And we're and we're ready to to to help you with whatever you think is is important to you. Um, but for my own side, I'm just gonna say thank you guys. Really good start to leadership detectives for the year. Thank you, Neil, working with you. We've had a great time getting this underway, but now this is the start. So I'm gonna leave you to close out, Neil. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03:No, well, I'll just reiterate what you said. Thanks to everyone for your input, for your listening. Hopefully, this has been useful to you, and we've helped you grow and maybe even kept you entertained during lockdown, and we're gonna keep doing that going forward, and we're gonna grow as well. You know, we're gonna grow what we do with leadership detectives and and so on. But please subscribe, please share your feedback, and good luck as we go into 2021.
SPEAKER_02:Cheers, guys, all the best. Talk to you.
SPEAKER_03:Take care.
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